Forum:Negating Pendulum Monsters when being activated as a Spell.

Hello. I have a bit of an odd question that I was hoping someone could link me to a decisive answer regarding the new Pendulum Monsters. My friend was activating a Pendulum Monster as a Spell in a Pendulum Zone and I had a face-up "Naturia Beast". I declared that I was using the effect of "Beast" and milled two cards. My friend, who is a qualified judge at a local tournament and rarely misunderstands rulings, said that Pendulum Monsters that are being activated in a Pendulum Zone are considered Monster Cards that then have a Continuous Effect that causes them to be treated as a Spell Card, but only after they resolve. He was believing that I could not use "Beast" because it is a "Monster Card", not a "Spell Card". I am pretty sure that I am correct with my usage of "Naturia Beast" and its effect, however I cannot find specific answers as to the classification of the activation of the Pendulum Monster as a Spell Card.

The only specific resulting answer I found was a YuGiOh Blog post where the following was stated:

• "Playing Pendulum Monster Cards as Pendulum Spells doesn’t even take up Spell & Trap Card Zones, so you can still use all your favorite Spells and Traps without worrying about running out of Zones. What’s even better, is that playing a Pendulum Spell isn’t a one-shot ability like Normal Spell Cards – they stay on the field as Spell Cards and their effects continue to apply as long as they’re on the field!" (https://yugiohblog.konami.com/articles/?p=6333)

Can anyone point me to more facts regarding this?

My friend also said another thing about Pendulum Summons that I did not think was true so I also present that to you:

• "To perform a Pendulum Summon, you must Activate both Pendulum Monsters (like an effect) in your 2 Pendulum Zones."

This makes it into a chain to Pendulum Summon and makes the summon itself into a Special Summon that is not inherent like Synchro and Xyz Summons are. You would also be able to disrupt the Pendulum Summon by chaining a card that would remove one of the Pendulum Monsters acting as a Spell Card. Such as using "Mystical Space Typhoon".

As I am not a Judge myself, I am not sure of any recent rulings that may say this, however my friend says that YuGiOhPro follows this concept and that Judges have been told that it is correct. Can I get validation or conflictions regarding this? --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 06:59, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

When a pendulum is activated as a spell, it is treated as a spell then and can be negated as such, meaning Beast, Magic Jammer and the like can negate their activations (this destroys them and sends them to the graveyard, not the extra deck, as they were not on the field when they died). this makes some interesting things happen with Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell, see its rulings (and the fact that there are rulings on CSotFS vs Pendulums also proves you were correct).

on the second point, your friend is Dead wrong, Pendulum summoning is inherent, thus starts no chain. NOTHING "Activates", you simply declare you are doing so and do so, just like with synchro or xyzs summons. This means you cannot chain MST to a pendulum summoning (as it does not start a chain, they must MST before you declare it or they are out of luck)

Any other questions?

DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 07:21, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

DreadKaiser, that Ruling for "Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell" was exactly what I needed. It details exactly that the Pendulum Monster is being activated as a Spell. Otherwise the Ruling would have been different. For the second part, it was more for when he was saying that I could use "Beast" to stop the Pendulum Monster. It wasn't really a heated conversation but knowing that there was no Ruling recently made regarding that will help some more. Thank You for your response. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 10:49, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

You're Welcome

DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 12:23, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

when pendulum is in you hand its a monster, when is "activated" is a scale or pendulum, when it resolved become continue spell card, you can not negate the pendulum activation because it is not considered spell or monster at the activation

You can negate the effect of a pendulum spell card (after serolving) and considered equal to normal spell continue card, for example if the oponente active the effect of "Qliphort Scout" (You cannot Special Summon monsters, except ‟Qli” monsters. This effect cannot be negated. Once per turn: You can pay 800 LP; add 1 ‟Qli” card from your Deck to your hand, except ‟Qliphort Scout”) you can negate or destroy them like a spell card (the effect is not resolved if the card leave the field)

Referense: the union monster it monster when the Effect is actived and become equip card (a lot of union re-edited the text, original text read "equip spell card")

Referense: the units for Xyz monsters is not considered monster card when attached and not considered monster when its detach. The units detach become monster when the effect its resolved (by this cards like macrocosmos or dimensional fissure not banish them, unit its not equal a card)

Pendulum summon not star a chain, you can destroy the pendulum scales but the special summon is not negate, and you onli destroy when the pendulum summon is resolving

Reference: when you declare Xyz summon or Synchron summon the oponente can not tarjet the monsters used on this Virusexe (talk • contribs) 05:03, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

Don't use old referense on a completely new mechanic.--Lê (talk • contribs) 09:48, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

Not to mention he is COMPLETELY WRONG AS WE HAVE A RULING EXPLICTILY STATING YOU CAN NEGATE THEM AS IF THEY WERE SPELL CARDS, WHICH I LINKED.

Someone needs to learn to read......

Virusexe, you honestly could no be more wrong about that if you tried, pls do not answer ruling questions til you know what the hell you are talking about

DreadKaiser (talk • contribs) 12:24, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

The news core book (Master ruler) incluying the next information

http://www.yugioh-card.com/tw/howto/master_rule_3.php?lang=en#ml5

The next information are posted in forums of konami (its in japanese) http://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/faq_search.action?ope=3&stype=1&keyword=&tag=11&sort=1&page=1

The Pendulum Card are treated monster (in monster card zone, deck, graveyard, hand, banish and extra deck) and continuous spell card on the Pendulum Zone

Place a monster pendulum in Monster card Zone its considered a summon like other monster card ruling

Place a monster pendulum in Pendulum Zone its considered a actiavition of continuous spell card to resolving the effects of others cards, monster pendulum in Pendulum Zone its considered a continuous spell card to resolving the effects of others cards

When the Pendulum card leave the field its treated to a monster card, if the card go to the field to the graveyard its place face up on the Extra deck instead, attached pendulum monsters and negate pendulum (spell or monsters) are sent to the graveyard

-Pendulum monster card on extra deck are public and you oponend can consult them -If a Pendulum monster card can not send to the graveyard resolving like a monster card (to be banish or return to the hand/Deck) -send Pendulum monster to the extra-deck its not considered "returner to the deck"

// I stated earlier references to letters and mechanical as a way of expressing the operation because in his time were similar doubts

Participant of the convenversacion with the information I had and not with eagerness to impose my view, only to know I could be wrong or correct. Now thanks to that I found more information than was torn and I could learn more about the pendulums .

I hope you do not mind if I start a DreadKaiser question regarding " Inverse Universe" and " colossal warrior" in othe link (Seeking a forum in Japanese at this time to avoid creating a theme in this wikia)

I see that other issues like avoiding complete a pendulum summon

http://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/faq_search.action?ope=5&fid=13130&keyword=&tag=11 -When you call any type of summons , you opponent can not activate cards (for example when you call xyz summon your oponent can not activate "book of moon", if you opponent like avoid the xyz summon its necesary activate the "book of moon" before you call the xyz summon). Based on the example above , if you requested pendulum summons , your opponent can not activate anything until complete the process (but may negate the invocation once see the monsters cards using effects that negate invocations)

Negate the pendulum effect or activation -the same steps and ruling to continuous spell card Virusexe (talk • contribs) 07:47, January 4, 2015 (UTC)

Nobody like to read a wall of text. Please reformat your question.--Lê (talk • contribs) 10:47, January 4, 2015 (UTC)