Forum:Stardust Dragon vs. Des Counterblow

To my understanding, Stardust Dragon would be destroyed with no chance to destroy Des Counterblow and to revive back. Des Counterblow activates after damage calculation. Stardust Dragon's first effect is not quick enough to be tributed since it is already in the graveyard. If this is true, then it may one of the few things to make this card less threatening.

Firesoul1 07:40, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Firesoul1

I'm not perfectly sure either, but it doesn't matter when the effect takes place because Stardust Dragon's effect is a trigger effect and would negate the activation of Des Counterblow's effect; not the activation of the card if that is what you meant. That is what I think at least.KiraxFreedom 08:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Im sorry i wasn't specific. i was asking about when Des Counterblow is already on the the field instead of chaining it to Stardust Dragon's attack. I understand Stardust Dragon can't destroy Des Counterblow during initial activation ( flipped face-up ) because it hasn't destroyed anything yet. In the rulings for Stardust Dragon, it says "Stardust Dragon's" first effect can be activated during the Damage Step" and the effect of Des Counterblow activates after the Damage Calculation. So which one comes first? Is it possible for the timing of Stardust Dragons's effect be missed?

Firesoul1 14:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Firesoul1

• What happens is that Stardust Dragon attacks directly, then Des Counterblow activates, Stardust Dragon tributes itself and destroys it, then Stardust Dragon revives at the end phase. Mindmime 16:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Remember Des Counterblow activates AFTER the damage is dealt. I don't think the effect of Stardust Dragon can respond that quickly ( Damage Step vs. Damage Calculation ) Now, the only other card to be a threat to Stardust Dragon is Begone, Knave! since it doesn't destroy anything just sends the card that attacked to the owners hand.

"Des Counterblow" activates at the same time as "Red Dragon Archfiend". As long as "Stardust Dragon" is not destroyed by battle (which is obvious for "Des Counterblow"), you can activate his effect.

KiraxFreedom, "Stardust Dragon"'s effect to negate a card is a Quick Effect, and it can be used against Continuous Spell/Trap Cards which are already face-up (like "Skull Lair", as it says in the rulings).

Also, "Des Counterblow" cannot be activated (flipped face-up) during the Damage Step. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 21:43, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Im confused since this ruling for Stardust Dragon is as follows, "If your Defense Position "Stardust Dragon" is attacked by "Red Dragon Archfiend" and it is destroyed by battle, you cannot chain "Stardust Dragon's" effect to "Red Dragon Archfiend's" effect that destroys your Defense Position monsters. Firesoul1 21:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Firesoul1

(to KiraxFreedom ) well Skull Layer can be used at anytime. Des Counterblow only reacts after damage is dealt. both cards have the speed (Quick Effect = Spell Speed 2). Firesoul1 22:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Firesoul1

(to Deus Ex Machina) whats the difference between Damage Step & Damage Calculation? which one comes first? Firesoul1 22:03, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Firesoul1

• When "Red Dragon Archfiend" attacks, if "Stardust Dragon" is destroyed by battle, you cannot activate "Stardust Dragon"'s effect. If "Stardust Dragon" is not destroyed by battle ("Waboku" was activated, the DEF of "Stardust Dragon" is higher than the ATK of "Red Dragon Archfiend", etc), then you can activate "Stardust Dragon"'s effect.
  
  Damage Calculation is a specific part of the Damage Step, where you compare the ATK/DEF of the battling monsters, inflict Battle Damage, and destroy monsters. See the Breakdown of the Battle Phase for the TCG version. I also have a sketch of the OCG Damage Step over here, since they're slightly different. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 22:03, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Great, lets say Waboku wasn't used.

In both cases ( Des Counterblow & Red Dragon Archfiend ) destroy after damage calculation. So why does Stardust Dragon behaves differently to the trap card?

Firesoul1 22:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Firesoul1

• Ah, I get now. So in the end Des Counterblow loses.

 that was some pretty deep stuff. Returning Stardust Dragon
 to the hand is a very good alternitive ( ordeal of a traveler,
 begone, knave! )

Firesoul1 22:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Firesoul1

Thnx for the correction, Dues. I didn't say anything about Skull Lair firesoul.KiraxFreedom 07:36, 25 November 2008 (UTC)