Forum:The Dark-Hex Seal Fusion

When you activated The Dark-Hex Seal Fusion second effect when you tributed fusion material monster is it a cost to activated the effect, or you just tribute fusion material monster when it resolve?

96.44.82.53 (talk) 12:06, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

"Tributing the Fusion Material Monsters including this card is a cost to activate the effect which Special Summons the Fusion Monster." -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:09, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Normaly with this card second effect if you want to special summon B.Skull Dragon you have to tributed Red-eye Black Dragon,or Summon Skull and Dark-Hex Seal Fusion, but if Skill Drain is face-up on the field the second effect will have to be done like this. You would have to tributed Red-eye Black Dragon, and Summon Skull, and Dark-Hex Seal Fusion, so is this correct? 96.44.82.53 (talk) 12:37, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

"This card's effect which allows it to be substituted for a Fusion Material Monster does not have a classification. It is neither a Flip Effect nor an Continuous Effect nor an Ignition Effect nor a Trigger Effect nor a Quick Effect."

The "You can substitute this card for any 1 Fusion Material Monster." part is not considered as an effect so it will not be negated by Skill Drain. Therefore, with Skill Drain face-up on the field, you only need to tribute The Dark - Hex-Sealed Fusion with Red-Eyes B. Dragon or Summoned Skull to special summon B. Skull Dragon. You cannot tribute all 3 monsters.-- HHTurtle ^Talk   14:15, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Is there a difference between a judge list ruling and the TCG ruling, because in the card ruling for king of Swamp in the Judge list ruling it state if king of Swamp is face-up when skill drain is face-up on the field you cannot use king of swamp as fusion material substituted, it also said that the artical is not updated, so is king swamp substituted effect an effect or not a effect? 96.44.82.53 (talk) 16:02, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

A "Judge List Ruling" is just a ruling that the TCG judges ruled during the time when the TCG was controlled by UDE. That is why some of them are outdated. The "If the Fusion Substitute Monster is face-up on the field, its effects are negated by "Skill Drain" so it cannot be used as a fusion substitute." Judge List Ruling is a bit weird as it seems to treat the "You can substitute this card for any 1 Fusion Material Monster." part as a Continuous Monster Effect. It doesn't really make sense as usually Continuous Monster Effects are not applied while the card is in the hand.

I suggest that you follow the current ruling that is listed (as crazy as it sounds) unless Konami issues a new ruling on that situation.-- HHTurtle ^Talk   16:14, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Thank You 96.44.82.53 (talk) 16:20, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't the supposed "Continuous Effect" not apply in this case, as it's second effect, which can't be negated by Skill Drain, doesn't apply to it's continuous effect? --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 17:33, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Another question about old, weird cards? ._.

Fusion Substitute Monsters' effects are still effects, so they can be negated and everything. There's a difference between "This is not an effect" and "This is an effect, but it doesn't have a classification". (Unfortunately, both are called Conditions, but there's not much we can do about that. *headdesk*) In this case, it can't be a Continuous Effect since the effect is also applied while the monster is in the hand/Graveyard or face-down, but it's still an effect.

To compare, monsters like "Kaiser Sea Horse" also have "This effect has no classification" effects, and they can be negated.

If "Skill Drain" is active, then the "substitute" effect is negated. In most cases, you can't use its second effect to Summon a Fusion Monster, since "The Dark - Hex-Sealed Fusion" isn't listed as a Fusion Material Monster on anything. If you change it to a Warrior, then you can Summon "UFOroid Fighter", but that's about it. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 18:15, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Deus Ex Machina so would I be able to use the Dark-Hex Seal Fusion second effect by tributing Red-eye Black Dragon, and Summon Skull, and The Dark-Hex Seal Fusion for B.Skull Dragon when skill drain is face-up on the field based on what you said I should be able to? 96.44.82.53 (talk) 19:28, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

You do not tribute Summoned Skull AND Red-Eyes Black Dragon. You only tribute one or the other. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 19:32, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about the coffusion When you offer fusion material as tributed for The Dark-Hex Seal Fusion second effect it is a cost to activated the effect so the (The Dark-Hex Seal Fusion can be used as a fusion material substitude for its second effect even if skill drain is face-up on the field because the (The Dark-Hex seal Fusion) is not on the field at that time.96.44.82.53 (talk) 21:32, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I also gave a thought about the "This effect has no classification" problem. Actually, I have to agree with Deus Ex Machina. The card text for both the English and Japanese versions are really old and weird. Both of them don't give enough detail about the special summon of the Fusion Monster. One more thing is that the Hex-Sealed Fusion cards just state "By Tributing Fusion Material Monsters on the field, including this card, Special Summon 1 (Attribute) Fusion Monster from your Fusion Deck.", it doesn't say anything about using the 2nd effect without using the 1st effect.

For the time being, it will have to be assumed that you can't tribute all 3 monsters to special summon B. Skull Dragon. However, it would be advisable that you consult your tournament judge well before you start to avoid any confusion.-- HHTurtle ^Talk   10:17, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

96.44.82.53 - the problem is, you can't even activate the effect. "The Dark - Hex-Sealed Fusion" isn't a valid Fusion Material for "B. Skull Draon", so you can't Tribute it. It doesn't matter that it is going to be a valid Material later on - it's not valid right now, so you can't Tribute it.

HHTurtle - by "including this card", it means that "The Dark - Hex-Sealed Fusion" must be one of the "Fusion Material Monsters on the field" that it previously mentions. "The Dark - Hex-Sealed Fusion" has to be included in that group of Fusion Materials. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 17:08, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I understand. However, I still insist that people ask their tournament judge well beforehand. It is an old card with an old and weird card text.-- HHTurtle ^Talk   11:37, August 28, 2010 (UTC)