Forum:Let's take some cards off the list.

I have been reading the September 2009 Lists over and over again, and I think I have made a list of balanced cards that are still on the list. I suggest moving some cards on the Ban list to the Limited list, or some Limited cards moving to the Semi-Limited list. Here are some:

1. Card Trooper (Semi-Limit) - Okay, it mills. Let's ban all Lightsworns. So you draw when it dies. Lots of cards do that. So it is a 1900 beatstick. So what?
2. Smashing Ground (Semi-Limit) - Why not? We unlimited Fissure, and the world hasn't ended yet. Gadgets are nowhere in this meta.
3. The Transmigration Prophecy (Semi-Limit) - A slow Pot of Avarice that can be helpful against some meta decks is still Limited?
4. Card Destruction (Semi-Limit) - So a -1 mill card that is abused by no major meta deck deserves to be Limited?

That is just my opinion, and I want to know if my points are correct. -bewk 18:39, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

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• Do you think that being able to recycle Allure of Darkness, Lightning Vortex and others is balanced? Might as well unban Dark Magician of Chaos, while we're at it. --Reimu-H 19:01, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the others but Magician of Faith will always be banned because of Book of Eclipse. --ME!!!!!!!!!! 18:49, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Oops, forgot about that combo. She is removed. -bewk

Then they should ban Book of Eclipse and not Magician of Faith.--67.177.13.234 19:02, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

I definately agree with 2, 3 and 4, not so sure about Card Trooper. Main reason being Machine Duplication. 3 card mill, 1900 ATK and (usually) drawing a card after isn't too much, but doubling it so simply might be. Semi-Limiting Card Destruction would be a nice boost for Dark World decks. --DestinyHeroDasher 20:04, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Using Machine Duplication to turn one Card Trooper into two is not broken. -bewk

Hmm yeah, and I guess that's the whole reason for the list, so Semi-Limited probably would be ok. Not that I totally disagreed in the first place, I'd love Card Trooper at 2 : ) --DestinyHeroDasher 22:46, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Prophecy not as bad as DMOC

How can you think prophecy would be as bad as DMOC was. I mean it is only adding it back to the deck. Depending on the deck it would only be as effective as hidden book of spells but thats not limited. Would be a great countermeasure to go alongside DD crow. Hell crows even better since its played from the hand and is harder to be able to anticapate.

Now if you were refering to a different card that has since been removed from his list my apoligesSteelfallenangel 01:30, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

I believe Reimu-H was talking about Magician of Faith. -bewk

Yes, i was. Transmigration isn't that broken --Reimu-H 12:59, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

It seem good for Card Trooper, but instead of ban all Lightsworn, we can just limited or banned only Judgment Dragon himself. For Smashing, that's alright, since it's kindly bored to see 1 Ground being crush each duel, or two if lucky... For Transmigration, I am sorry, it remains limited; since it not only recycle monster, it also recycle spell and trap, included itself, so no. Card Destruction is big deal, if you Trunade the field, bounding the monster (Guardian Sphinx) then using it twice will murder your opponent's hand twice, so no again. Thanks for reading this comment. --FredCat100 01:42, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid you have misunderstood my post. The comment you reacted to was sarcasm. I would never suggest banning all Lightsworn monsters. And, to fix LS's overpowered tactics, all you need to do is Limit Charge of the Light Brigade. Anyway, let's keep it on topic. Recycling two cards to the deck isn't broken. Also, the combos you mentioned that included Card Destruction is far too intricate to do any damage in today's meta, and is not broken. -bewk

Contradiction...

--About The Transmigration Prophecy:if you Semi-Limit it,it will recycle itself,returning 1 card + The Transmigration Prophecy = Recycling.

--About Card Destruction:Imagine a Dark World Deck having 2 Card Destruction.

--About Smashing Ground:They unlimit Fissure because it's hard to kill a very large Monster card,w/ a big ATK points,if there are many annoying smaller Monster cards on its side,w/ a small ATk points.But the difference they have in Smashing Ground,it kills a monster w/ the highest DEF points,so it can kill a Judgment Dragon,even if it has a Wulf, Lightsworn Beast,a Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner, and even a Aurkus, Lightsworn Druid on its side.

--About Card Trooper:if you Semi-Limit this dude,imagine 6 cards milled,having 2 monsters w/ 1900 atk,that will not be hit by Level Limit - Area B and Gravity Bind,and if it gets to be destroyed by Mirror Force,you'll have to draw 2 cards.

--But still,there are possibilities.

Jampong 10:39, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

I still think Lonefire Blossom should be full-set. Much of the time after Summoning with it, my monster is instantly removed by Bottomless Trap Hole. As long as Bottomless is at 2, I think Lonefire should be at 3. If BTH drops down to 1 by ANY chance (I'm not saying it SHOUlD, but this is just an example), then yes, Lonefire could be at 2. But right now, Lonefire Blossom isn't any worse than anything else out there. Plus, there are only two cards worth Summoning with it in terms of power, and those are Gigaplant and Tytannial, Princess of Camellias. And like I said before, Bottomless Trap Hole and Torrential Tribute are commonly played to stop Tytannial, since she cannot negate either of these cards. Also, I think Black Rose Dragon could live at being Semi-Limited. I understand that we can't have 3 nukes going on per duel for each player, but they have to go after Debris-Hime, while Lightsworn and Blackwings are a much bigger threat?--Akiza Izayoi 13:16, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

@ Jampong

Are any of the things you mentioned broken? If you loop two Transmigrations, is that broken? What deck would abuse that? How can that win a game?
Also, so what if Dark World decks get two swarm cards. Flamvell have three, and so do Crystal Beasts. Have you been seeing those top Shonen Jumps? I know about the Flamvell/LS build, but that will never consistantly top any major tournament.
Many cards can take down JD. Does that mean the card is over-powered? No.
I don't get how summoning two Card Troopers in one turn is too powerful to be in the game? Lumina can get out three of itselves, and another monster, and then mill a substantial amount, and it isn't on the Ban List. -bewk

My two cents

Really, I kinda agree with you. The main reason of why Card Trooper is banned, however, is how highly splashable it is. Compare it to Lightsworns Ryko and Lyla. Both of these cards will FORCE you to mill, and in the case of Ryko, is only useable once. For Card Trooper, it can be used as many times as you'd like, and you can chose the number of cards you want to mill. I think it should somewhat stay on the limited list until Zombie decks become unpopular. Now, a card I would like to see off the banned list, is Monster Reborn. There was no combo that abused it before it being banned. When it was limited, it was totally fine. Sure people found it annoying, but we find all of the Blackwings and Lightsworns annoying. In return we got Call of the Haunted for little reason. I don't know why that card was banned at all. Its not like someone unbanned Dark Magician of Chaos. Also, as soon as Six Samurai really dies out, I want my extra copies of RotA back please. At least X-Sabers can't 100% make use of it. --TehBazzard here! 22:17, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

I thought about Monster Reborn, but it isn't really balanced. It just makes every deck faster and much more powerful. You can still revive monsters with Call of the Haunted, but it is slower. ROTA is a possible Semi-Limit, but I can't fully understand the consequences of changing it's status. -bewk

Call vs Reborn

Call may be slower than Reborn is but it has WAY more ways of being abused. I mean Reborn gets you one monster one time. There are no easy ways of either drawing it or retreiving it from the graveyard without high cost. While Call on the other hand has a variety of ways of drawing itself and retrieving from the graveyard without a higher cost not to mention it being a trap can be used on the oppenents turn. I mean i know its not mainstay anymore but Jinzo and Royal Decree make it easy to recycle and re-use.

Both are powerful but i feel if I only had to have one it would be Reborn for both balance and power. Steelfallenangel 23:08, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Speed makes the card broken. Call may be recyclable, but it can be easily countered. Breaker, MST, Heavy Storm, Bestiari, etcetera, are all Call-killers. Monster Reborn doesn't stay on the field, so it is harder to counter. Monster Reborn just happened to add to the OTK mentality that most major decks have, while Call doesn't. -bewk

• Well The banning of Monster Reborn killed my spirit-princess deck, It had a good chance against any deck, all I had too do was stale and burn as fast as possible, then when things went bad all I had to do was steal a good monster from my opponents graveyard and strike back, most of the time for a win, Autonomus Action Unit can let me do almost the same, but with the severe drawback of takin-up one of my precious Trap-spell slots (Which are very important in my deck due to the high amount of continous spell and trap cards needed for the deck), not being flexible enough and the risk of not being able to pay for its cost. Of course it was an important part of many OTK's, but also was a card that allowed humble not competitive decks to stand a little to meta decks. HouseholdCatDeity 03:48, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

reborn has thing that call does not access to your opponents grave, with call you can pull out an opponents monster free of any restrictions.(it fun to use call on the monster your opponent is targeting with however)

I prefer call over reborn since call is just too slow for top decks but really benefits the lower tier decks. I'd actually like to see it maybe semi-limited since that would help out lower tier decks more the the top tier.Lord of Amphibians 20:51, January 1, 2010 (UTC)