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Cno. 69

Number C69: Heraldry Crest of Horror "Looks pointedly at the card"

I really think that this is a BAD idea to release as is. Let me list a number of issues you probably noticed:

1) 4000 ATK. Really Konami? This can be ranked-up from ANY Rank 4 Xyz using Limited Barian's force. Wipe your opponent's field, speed two Rank 4s, swig two bottles of RUM and it's game. 4000 ATK is BIG. Too big. I mean, there are cards that can overwhelm this card in ATK, but then again, who would attack this thing since...

2) Quoted from card: "When an opponent's monster declares an attack: Destroy all cards your opponent controls." WHAT. REALLY KONAMI? This is horrendously broken. Ok, it hinges on your opponent being stupid enough to attack it. So what? IT DOES NOT NEED XYZ MATERIAL TO EVEN BE ATTACHED TO USE THIS, AND IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE RANKED-UP FROM REGULAR 69. No monster during opponent's battle phase? No problem; Xyz Reborn or Call of the Haunted this from the Graveyard. Your opponent HAS to waste valuable cards to take care of this card in some way ASAP because otherwise they can't attack at all, and 4000 ATK plus this effect is pressure enough to make them do some sub-par plays just to get rid of it while you set up a backup. YOU CAN HIDE BEHIND THIS THING WHENEVER YOU SUMMON IT.

3) This issue is more minor, but still a problem: The effect gained from explicitly ranking-up Heraldry Crest. It's not as bad because it's a rank-up effect, and it's reasonable since Genome Heriter has a better version of this, but the reason I think it's a problem is because it's THIS GUY. If he had this effect alone I wouldn't be whining. It's a good effect on its own. Problem is, he has it on top of all the problems I listed above.

4) Not nomi? Not even semi-nomi?? *facepalms* WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? We already have a host of cards that can call this thing from the Extra Deck easy-peasy. FROM THE GRAVEYARD TOO???!!!! SAYONARA, LOGIC.

Now let me share with you the horrors of inserting this card into a Heraldic Deck:

Remember the one-time worst Heraldic Monster? Yeah I'm talking about Unicorn. This thing was worthless when it first came out, except for emergency relief. Then came Rank-Up Magics. Specifically two cards.

The first was Limited Barian's force. That could rank-up regardless of type, allowing a depowered Genome Heriter summoned back through Unicorn to become something stronger like Number C105. But due to the nature of the current Rank-Up monsters, this was a desperate idea at best.

Then came the second: Number c106: Giant Hand Red. This card gained its effect from ANY NUMBER MONSTER. You can see where I'm going. Depowered number --> Limited Barian's --> Giant Hand Red. Heck, I even threw in Twin-Head Eagle before step two to give Giant Hand Red extra Xyz Materials. But as Giant Hand Red wasnt that game-breaking, Heraldics remained in the shadows.

Do you see where I'm going?

Introduce Number C69. If we replace Giant Hand Red with C69, HELL will break loose. Heraldics don't have the issue seen with Rank-Up Magics that normal decks have, ie: draws RUM, no way to Rank-Up, because of the combo I just described. With Leo in the Deck, it is childishly easy to bring Unicorn to the fray. With their other comboes, its childishly easy to bring out Genome Heriter. Lob in a RUM for good measure, and we have a 4000 ATK monster. Which can ALSO be brought back by Unicorn for a 4000 ATK wall of trolling. So its effect is negated. What idiot is going to attack a 4000 ATK monster? Most people don't run monsters that can exceed this thing's ATK.

To conclude, I know that I'm probably overblowing it, and speculating the crap out of everything, as I don't even remotely understand the concept of the current meta beyond "load your hand, swarm the field, rip what little your opponent's have to shreds, otk" but with everything I have put forth, I really do think that the impending threat of Number C69 seems rather...formidable to say the least. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 20:35, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Dude....Chill. You're forgetting that there are a slew of cards that can negate its effect, a slew of cards that can cut down its ATK, and their are a slew of ways to beat it with attack. You're overreacting. A card isn't born broken, it's the people who use it that break it. But there plenty of countermeasures that exist to that C69 down. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 20:46, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

I know the perfect solution, and with has only 4 words: 1: Gimmick 2: Puppet 3: Giant 4: KILLER! XD This card alone is an half-OTK against C69. --XBrain130™「Ｘ頭脳１３０」 21:01, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Number Wall. WHAT NOW?! I can't wait to blow stuff up with this card…NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 21:04, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Rocket, I am well aware of the countermeasures. I know he is horrendously vulnerable to any effect. He can be sliced down to size with shrink, he can be destroyed with mirror force, he can be destroyed by dark hole. What I'm trying to say is: This card can possibly outspeed ALL of them. You can get 4000 original ATK in three cards. This card's super-mirror force effect doesn't have any cost or condition besides time to use it to boot.

The problem isn't just what is on the text. The problem is, as you say, what people can do with it. And just looking at the card, there is a lot that can be done with it.

To put it plainly:

• So you can negate it's effect. Ok. Good luck getting past its 4000 ATK.
• So you cut this guy down to size. Good luck getting past its effect.
• So you did both of these. Hey look! Xyz Reborn! Surprise, it's back!

Do you see where I'm going? It's too much for one card. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 21:02, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

@X lol I did think of that. Now what are you going to do about 3 of these guys bearing down on your LP? Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 21:03, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Oh and to clarify to ALL other readers who are likely to label me as a ranter with self control issues: I just start discussions like that. I don't know why T_T. I mean well, I'm not a total out-of-control idiot. I am an idiot :D but not totally irrational. I HAVE thought of everything that can defeat him.

Big line is: This guy's a Battle Phase Juggernaut.

And he's a big target.

Biggest thing to do with him? Keep setting him up so your opponent has to break him apart again.

And again.

And again.

That's the way I see he will be used :P Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 21:07, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

You are obviously not an idiot. You have really thought out your reasoning, and you make really good points (I would know, cuz I run Heraldic Beasts, and now have to switch to Limited BF to really enjoy this card). I am kinda with you on this, but thats why this card will be Unlimited, Forbidden, then Limited (cuz thats how Konami does things, apparently). NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 21:12, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Bottomless Trap Hole, Dimensional Prison, Fiendish Chain, Solemn Warning, the list can go on. There are no cards that exist that can't be stopped. You're overreacting to this. I can think of at least five cards that are way worse and way easier to summon. Jet-Black Nova (talk • contribs) 21:20, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Just curious, but can you name them? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 21:22, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

People are really misunderstanding me here. I'm not saying he CAN'T be stopped. I am full aware of that. Stardust Dragon. Shooting Star Dragon. Torrential Tribute. Anything that's anti-special summon. Anything that's anti summon. Anything that's anti-monster. Yadda yadda yadda.

My issue is: He's too easy to ABUSE. Repeatedly.

He lacks protection against any card effects. But I will clarify again: There is no deck that does use a Rank-Up-Magic on Rank 4s, of which I know there are fewer than I would like, that cannot afford to run him. Your opponent drops him on you first turn. What then? You can scramble for Dark Hole and think that's that, but then your opponent revives it or summons ANOTHER ONE. And just when you think you're safe after defeating all three, your opponent wipes your field and revives 2 with Unicorn and pounds you to the dust. Besides, has anyone considered the idea that it might be wise to use this card in a deck that FORCES your opponent to attack?

Now we move on to the blah blah blah he can be countered blah blah blah you're overreacting. I am, I know. Counters are prevalent everywhere. But I guarantee you all that this one card will generate a lot of fury in the near future. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 21:36, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Thats why he is so AWESOME.NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 21:45, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

I believe too that this card is a bit too powerful. When I readed the final effect the first time, my jaws almost dropped XD JK This thing gains 1400 ATK with the Rank Up, the followers are Ultimatrainer and No.92 with only 1000 more ATK! But look at the card list of Legacy of Valiant, just a couple of rows down: Gorgonic Guardian. This thing not only makes 0 the attack of an opponent monster and negates its effects, but it can destroy it right after. Still, it needs 2 level 3 rock-types... And don't forget the (almost) infinite number of cards that destroys monsters. Or bounces them back. CNo.69 activates its Ultra-Mirror-Blast effect? Chain Divine Wrath. Or Compulsory Evacuation Device. Or Xyz Encore. Or Dark Core. Maybe Raigei Break. Book of Moon turns it into a weaker 1800 DEF. And blah blah blah

I play Gimmick Puppets. With them, it's easy make 3 Level 8s ==> Destiny Leo. It can win the duel by detaching 3 materials. You know what? Almost every time I summon it, it is either banished by bottomless, or it is destroyed during the very last of my opponent's/opponents' turns. And then it becomes MY last turn. --XBrain130™「Ｘ頭脳１３０」 21:55, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

You used Destiny Leo? Almost everyone will tell you that was a bad idea. But then you know why already.

I have already acknowledged the fact that there is near infinite anti-support against him. There are measures against those measures though. A good Forbidden Lance at the right time will circumvent a lot of those measures, as will a good Trap Stun. And as I have already noted up above, the problem is this thing can come back.

No Xyz Materials? Not ranked up? No problem. He's still Super Mirror Force at no cost either way. I didn't say your opponent had to kiss the duel goodbye, I said that your opponent will usually have to screw their own playstyle to get rid of this guy each time he appears, especially if you set your playstyle such that you can revive him multiple times (oh god, that just gave me a thought: This guy in a zombie world deck O.o he'd keep coming back really easily after one summon.) . Users of this card can just throw him away again and again and still use his super mirror force by bringing him back like a non-xyz monster. The usual deal with Xyz Monsters is that they trade long term good power for short term super power; they'll run out of Xyz Materials to use their effects eventually. This guy shares long term super power with monsters more difficult to summon.

Unlike a lot of monsters with 4000 ATK and up he doesnt need much to special summon, and also unlike many of them he is not nomi, ensuring that he can be set up to be reused quickly either by summoning another one reviving the first. He even has better effects than all the ones that are faster than him, and some of the ones who aren't. Of the 37 currently released cards with equal attack or higher than him, exactly 8 have a way of dealing with him at minimal strength on their own. Even then I can list only 4 who would technically WIN against him on their own in a one on one (discounting all other cards) in any situation: Shooting Quasar Dragon, Majestic Red Dragon, Obelisk the Tormentor, and Rainbow Neos. Even then only Shooting Quasar Dragon could possibly win if it was Chaos of Arms' turn.

Bottom line: He circumvents the weaknesses of almost all Xyz Monsters, including and especially Rank-Ups. His effect without Xyz Materials is better than the one with them, and he's also a lot better cost per gain than most monsters with 4000 original ATK. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 22:38, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, I just recalled that, C69 being a Psychic, also interacts with banish-Psychics. Although it, thankfully, doesn't synergize particularly well with EXVC's banish-Psychics, it could get a little nasty with their effects. The saving grace to C69 is that its field-nuke is not manually-activated, unlike other infamous cards. Unless you're forcing the opponent to attack with an obscure card effect that normally won't help in most other situations, it essentially forces the opponent to stand their ground until they devise a means to get rid of C69 while simultaneously ending the Duel once they're given that opportunity.

The other saving grace to any Deck utilizing C69 is that Rank-Up-Magic Limited Barian's Force is not easily searched, and thus hampers its consistency. Wait, what's that I hear? Jumbo Drill, are you and the Gadgets laughing?

Also, betting that either C69 or Limited Barian's Force appears on the next list. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 06:25, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Cyber Dragons

How is everyone liking the new support for Cyber Dragons?

Cyber Dragon Core

Cyber Network

Cybernetic Fusion Support

Cyber Dragon Drei

Cyber Dragon Nova

Cyber Repair Plant

Note how a lot of the newest Cyber Dragon monsters' names are auto-treated as "Cyber Dragon." It's going to be a lot easier to summon the big 3:

Cyber End Dragon

Chimeratech Fortress Dragon

Chimeratech Overdragon

Thoughts? Also Cyber Network after you've done a lot of work with Overload Fusion is a scary thought :D Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 21:13, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

I am LOVIN IT. I can't wait to start running these guys! Thats why I am going to buy 3 of that Deck. I also want to see exactly how people will abuse them…NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs)

Time to overreact in order to predict the future :D

• Cyber Dragon Core: That one's easy. The first effect is a searcher, so we can expect that people are going to be pulling a variant of the Emergency Call Stratos combo:

• Summon Core, Add Cyber Repair Plant. Or vice versa before the first happens.

• The second effect can call from the deck. We know how that one's going to go.

• Used from field or hand for a cost, and then sometime later when your field is empty a wild Cyber Dragon appears xD

• Cyber Network: Don't get me started. Your opponent will be AFRAID to destroy this thing if you have enough banished applicable monsters. Besides, it's easier to pull the cards you DO want this way. Also, I notice that a lot of the cards released have stuff to do with being banished, so this thing can call them back easy. If you need a quick wall to block your opponent, MST this thing while you have a bunch of banished machines. Oh yeah, and you can finally use Cyber Ouroborous practically.
• Cybernetic Fusion Support: *looks at card* Well we've seen how Zane's used this thing...But I hate to think what would happen if you used Chimeratech Overdragon instead of Cyber End Dragon, with it and power bond...Your opponent better hope they have only defense position monsters and counters.
• Cyber Dragon Drei: Well, I did wonder how Nova was going to get called out. Solves that mystery :P. Also, it can combo with Cyber Network to be annoying for mirror-force only users.
• Cyber Dragon Nova: ...what can I say? Do the following to psyche your opponent out?

• Step 1: Use Elemental Hero Prisma's effect.
• Step 2: Reveal Cyber End Dragon
• Step 3: Somehow normal summon Drei
• Step 4: Modify both their levels due to Prisma being treated as Cyber Dragon
• Step 5: Summon this card. Your opponent will read it and not want to use anything except non-"send to grave" effects and attacks against it, lest they call out the Cyber End Dragon you just casually threatened them with.

Stupid combo, but it's psychological warfare right there.

• Cyber Repair Plant: This thing is nice. It's an easy searcher. Nuff said.

Also I did notice that the structure deck uses both Transmodify and Super Polymerization. The former is a little meh, barring the fact that you can replace Core with Proto Cyber or something along the same lines, but the second...3 copies of that thing is a scary thought O_o.

Well those are my thoughts. Feel free to tell me how I'm overreacting again :D Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 22:04, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

The only one I can kinda agree with is Cyber Network. However, chaining to it with MST will prevent it from resolving, so it's something to note. The others not so much, since Cyber Dragon is at the end of the day, a simple 2100 ATK. Nova is also annoying, but I think using it for a Chimeratech Material will be fun. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:49, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Also, anyone else interesting in knowing what all the other Cyber cards are in Cyber Network? I can make out some of them, but I'm not what the monster directly behind Cyber Dragon it. I'm not talking about Cyber Dragon Zwei or Twin-Cyber Dragon. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:51, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

The one right behind Cyber Dragon is Nova. You can tell by the unique shape of the wings added to the one head. Cyber End is also there behind Drei, which is to the right -back of Cyber Dragon, Fortress is behind him, Eltanin is between Fortress and Nova, and I believe Proto is in the front left while core is in the front right. More than that I cant tell. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 00:13, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Here I made an image to show you:

Correct it plz

Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk) 00:28, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Pardon me while I go and edit my Cyber Style guide... --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 06:30, October 18, 2013 (UTC)