Forum:Question about cards like Reborn Tengu and Grand Mole

I'm confused on something. I was playing someone the other day and he attacked my face down card, which was Grand Mole. When I said I activated its effect, he said I could not do that because it was face down. Why? There is nothing on the card that states it has to be face up to use it. The same goes for soemthing like Reborn Tengu. I see this on the rulings page:

■ This effect does not activate if Reborn Tengu is returned from the field to the Deck. [1] ■ This effect does not activate if Reborn Tengu is removed from the field while face-down.[1]

but that does not make sense to me. How are you supposed to know the effect does not activate if it is face down or returned to the deck? The card just says what it does without any specifics like that. If it is going to be in the rulings, should it not be stated as such on the card. Grand-Mole should read:

At the start of the Damage Step, if this card battles an opponent's monster while face up: You can return both monsters to the hand (without damage calculation).

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:34, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Because the face-down monster cannot activate its eff. That is a very basic rule. Can you set Elemetal Hero Stratos and still get its effect? (-Magicknight94-)--65.49.14.52 (talk) 05:47, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

If "Neo-Spacian Grand Mole" is attacked while face-down, or is otherwise not face-up at the beginning of the Damage Step, then you cannot activate its effect." From Card Rulings:Neo-Spacian Grand Mole. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 05:48, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

But why? The card does not specifically say that. Is it becuase he is anot a flip effect monster?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 14:34, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

"The face-down monster cannot activate its effect." Is this clear?--Lê (talk • contribs) 14:45, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

The fact that it does not say it is what I am not getting. There is nothing on the card that states as such. So then why do cards like Nova Summonder, Sangan, and cards that give tokens like Tanngrisnir able to work but Grand Mole and Tengu can not?

Oh, and Statos' card specifically states it has to be normal summoned or special summoned to activate.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 21:46, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

It's because they work when they were flipping over and sent to the Graveyard directly from the Field. Grand Mole and Tengu must be face-up before got attacked (except for latter that must be face-up when strike and flipped) in order to triggering their effect. Their timing is complete different from the one you mentioned. Other don't matter if killed while face-down or not, Dark Hole can kill Sangan in order to gain 1500 ATK or lower monster, Tengu does not. Also, Nova Summoner cannot activate if slain by "Mystic Swordsman LV2", because it must be as result of the battle. --FredCat 22:17, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

The effect of Neo-Spacian Grand Mole activates before a monster is flipped up in the Damage Step. Therefore, if it is facedown when attacked, the point where its effect activates is missed. It is later flipped up to perform Damage Calculation. At this point, cards like Nova Summoner are "realized" to be destroyed by battle, and then they go to the graveyard, and activate their effects. Go read Breakdown of the Battle Phase, it helps to understand effect timings. --S1L3N7 N1GH7S (talk • contribs) 02:03, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, that user meant for "Neo-Spacian Grand Mole" being face-down when attacked, not reverse situation. --FredCat 02:21, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

So, Dr Kain, can monsters like Sniper Hunter, Stardust Dragon, Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning activate their effect in face-down?--Lê (talk • contribs) 04:22, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

I knew one or two monsters that can be activated, but required specify timing (Spell Card is the hint) --FredCat 01:48, March 2, 2012 (UTC)