Forum:Relinquished vs Number 88?

First I want to make sure I properly understand the mechanics before getting to the question I want to ask.

First, rulings I've seen separate "Effects" from "Victory Conditions" and therefor mechanics or cards that negate or nullify "Effects" do not apply to "Victory Conditions" (Exodia vs Prohibition being an example).

Next, from what's I've seen (though I can't find where I read it now) Any XYZ Monster that is changed to a Spell/Trap card no longer has it's Overlay Units due to it no longer being treated as a XYZ Monster.

The question should be obvious via the title of this post. If both of these hold true, then couldn't a newly Summoned "Relinquished" take an opponent's "Number 88: Gimmick Puppet - Destiny Leo" and instantly win the game?

The ruling on Monsters being converted to Spell/Trap says that their effects cannot be used. The thing is, if Prohibition vs Exodia is any indicator, Victory Conditions ignore this rule completely. Number 88's last line is: "If there are no Xyz Materials attached to this card, its controller wins the Duel."

Since it says "this card" as opposed to "this monster" it should, by all means, give the player controlling Relinquished an instant victory. I acknowledge that the wording of this card is not official yet, but the current wording here is what I'm basing this idea from. Also, I may be misunderstanding a game mechanic here.

The0nlykyd (talk • contribs) 00:48, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

I am sure that "Number 88: Gimmick Puppet - Destiny Leo" can only work to ending the game while it is a Monster, not while it is face-up on the Spell/Trap Slots. It's like you're trying to win the game with Exodia the Forbidden One being on the field, not in the hand. If I am wrong, then it's complete possible. --iFredCat 00:50, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

The difference is Exodia specifically states that it must be in the hand for you to declare victory, while #88 only needs to be controlled without attached Units. Not sure how to use the reply function, so if I did it wrong let me know.

The0nlykyd (talk • contribs) 00:56, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

And that's ANIME effect, we would not be sure about it official OCG/TCG effect yet. If it was releasing into OCG and later TCG, I am positive that Leo would have to be a monster instead of "card". It's only because in Anime, Pegasus is already long dead by the time that monster is making an appearance. --iFredCat 01:04, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

I acknowledge that it's a show effect, as I stated in the post. It's simply a matter of what should happen if that effect were to hold. Kind of a food for thought. I'm sure the card will be nerfed when it's released into the OCG/TCG.

The0nlykyd (talk • contribs) 01:06, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Let me just say that this is a very terrible question to ask. One should never, ever base how a card would work in real life from how it was used in the manga/anime.

1. The anime card text for No. 88 is most certainly broken.

2. The rules in the manga/anime always change from time to time, even within a few episodes.

3. All the terminology like Target, Chain, Resolve are seldom used correctly.

4. Powerful cards in the manga/anime are almost always nerfed when made into real cards.

5. Game Mechanics are almost non-existent in the manga/anime world. Does anyone still remember the "Catapult Turtle Flying Castle Gambit"?  HHT   - (Talk to the Turtle) 06:17, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and also "Black-Winged Dragon" has been changed at least once, first time it was played - it only taking 400 damages each time the effect damage is activate (exact amount you took) but later, when Yusei played it; it was changing to 700 damage only. --iFredCat 11:26, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

I believe that the OCG/TCG effect of Number 88 will be something like "Cannot be Special Summoned, except by Xyz Summon. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card. If all Xyz Materials are dettached from this card by its own effect, its controller wins the Duel.", otherwise it will be just a matter of summoning it and using "Oni-Gami Combo" or any similar card. So, it won't be possible to use that strategy with "Relinquished" anyway. --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 19:29, June 15, 2012 (UTC)