Forum:Face-down card rulings

According to the wikia "Face-down cards have no properties (name, Attribute, Type, Level/Rank, ATK, DEF, effect) until they are changed to face-up." So then how can anyone do any of the following:

• Tribute a face-down Majespecter monster for the effect of a Majespecter Spell/Trap card.
• Use Shaddoll Fusion to fuse face-down Shaddoll monsters.
• Activate Icarus Attack by tributing a face-down Winged Beast-Type monster.

And all other events like the 3 above. TheGameRogue (talk • contribs) 05:31, January 11, 2016 (UTC)

Yes you can do those things, including using face-down monsters for a Contact Fusion. These are the only exceptions.

As a side note, if you would use your opponent's face-down monsters in any of those situations that require a monster to have a specific characteristic (other than simply being in Defense Position), you cannot. Stuff like "Super Polymerization" or "Soul Exchange" make those scenarios possible.

("Face-down cards have no properties (name, Attribute, Type, Level/Rank, ATK, DEF, effect) until they are changed to face-up." I vaguely remember some ruling expert telling me that's not how this sort of thing should be explained because of the exceptions you mentioned... I'll look into it, if I remember.) --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 06:36, January 11, 2016 (UTC)

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Not sure if it's the same ruling in this case: "A face-down card banished by the effect of "Ghostrick Skeleton" can be verified by the owner of that card. However, the opponent cannot verify that card.", which means the controller will always know the properties of their face-down card, the opponent won't.

So the player can use "Icarus Attack", "Shaddoll Fusion", etc because they know their face-down monster is a valid card to use (and also because none of those cards say the monster must be face-up to use), and they can't use "Super Polymerization", etc with the opponent's face-down monster because they can't check the properties of it. --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 04:48, January 12, 2016 (UTC)

Don't think that's it, or else you could use cards like Raidraptor - Call on your facedown monsters. Not entirely sure myselfThechosenone124 (talk • contribs) 20:26, January 12, 2016 (UTC)

the easy answer: because you can, Konami said so.

Technical answer, you can do things like fuse or tribute facedowns for specific condition cards because it would instantly be apparent if you used improper monsters (IE, cheated). You can do these for your own things because you know what they are, even if it isn't public knowledge.

As for Raidraptor Call, as far as I am aware, the exceptions only work for things like fusion material or Tributing (for costs or effect, apparently), things that immediately move a monster to a zone that makes it public knowledge, RR Call does not do that so I do not think it works for it. Also may not work for RR Call because that one actually targets and a facedown would probably not be valid for that.

Dread (talk • contribs) 20:59, January 12, 2016 (UTC)

Separated this section because it's too distracting from the main question. You cannot target face-down cards (on either side of the field) for effects, except if they only say "Target 1 card", "Target 2 monsters", "Target 3 Defense Position monsters", "Target 4 Spell/Trap Cards", "Target 5 face-down Spell/Trap Cards", etc. If the targeting conditions get more specific, like Continuous Trap Card, or Winged Beast-Type, DARK, "Gravekeeper's", etc., then you can only target face-up cards.

When it comes to sending/banishing specific cards you control by an effect or to activate an effect (i.e. a cost), you cannot use face-down cards you control. When it comes to Tributing specific cards you control to activate an effect (i.e. a cost) or by an effect, you can use face-down cards you control. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 22:09, January 12, 2016 (UTC)

"When it comes to sending/banishing specific cards you control by an effect or to activate an effect (i.e. a cost), you cannot use face-down cards you control." then how it's possible to use face-down monsters as (specific) Fusion Materials? --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 03:51, January 13, 2016 (UTC)

I think its because fusion summoning uses them as material, but doesn't necessarily send/banish them. So you can use facedowns cards, but you cant send/banish them for their name. Maybe? Thechosenone124 (talk • contribs) 05:16, January 13, 2016 (UTC)

I already said in my initial reply that Fusion Summoning is 1 of those exceptions to not being able to rely on face-down monsters you control for card effects/costs. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 05:39, January 13, 2016 (UTC)