Forum:Restore Numbers trivia

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Why is most trivia regarding the numeric values of Numbers gone? For not being likely enough? It is the main essence of the Numbers that these meanings are recognized, and noted, to tell us a great story hidden behind only those 2 or 3 digits, so why are most of them being removed?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 20:02, May 17, 2013 (UTC)


Discussion follows on from thread located here.

So, my next question would be: Why are you afraid?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 21:43, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Keep this discussion civil. Also, don't dump an entire talk page's worth of content into a forum page in future.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 21:51, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
Why, you told me to move the discussion to the forums, didn't you? And that's exactly what I did. Asking this on the usual page seemingly would just invite people's anger, and one needs a cool head to make good decisions. I didn't break any of your told demands. Besides, the conversation here and there considers the same topic, so why not just skip the entire class over here? We can continue the debate here. It's not over by a long shot. Unless, of course, you wish concede?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 21:55, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
I told you to start a discussion if you wanted policy to be looked at regarding Trivia, not that particular page. That discussion is over and done with. Your tone is highly aggressive, and you will quickly find that it is not you that calls the shots here.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 21:58, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
It is quite difficult to properly channel my tone over typed words. Otherwise you might describe my tone as a bit different than "agressive".--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:00, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
So, if you still stand behind your words, how about you answer my question?
Why are you afraid?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 21:59, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
You don't seem to be looking at this from a balanced perspective. The fact that you recognized fan-fic theories as trivia, such as "Stealth Bird" being the inspiration for the "Blackwing" archetype and that "Abaki" is an anagram for Kaiba, is worrisome. By this, it seems that if I said "White Potan" was directly based on "Marshmallon" and that "Dragon Capture Jar" is a representation of Kisara's power, you would accept it as valid trivia. Also, "I'm gonna make you restore this and all other Number trivias if it's the last damn thing I do!" doesn't sound like a person willing to listen to reason. I suggest that you turn a blind eye to trivia if it's going to produce this big of a response from you, since you don't seem to view things from a balanced perspective. --UltimateKuriboh (talkcontribs) 22:01, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, that, I did loose my cool back then, appologies. But, if you can see things for what they're not and not for what they are, to question the truth but not question the untruth, how can you talk back about "balanced perspective"?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:04, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
I did manage to move the discussion on this forum after all. That is at least one step forward. But it seems I'm a bit too far away from convincing you guys, and despite the stress it's been put upon me, I do not intend to back down from it. I intend to defend something I care about. Something I-

Wait... .... I just got an idea. You're saying that trivia should include nothing but the stuff you can absolutely proove, and no weird assumptions?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:09, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

I think that was the idea, but I'd wait for Fox or Ulti to confirm. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:12, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
I'll save you the time. Fishborg blaster based on archerfish, Number 74 being the 4th of 7, don't you really think that deleting information such as that is a waste? How about a new section for the "unconfirmed" info. "Gossip" or something like that?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:15, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
The wiki isn't about "Gossip", that makes us look like a bunch of idiots who don't care about the facts. We want to be as official as possible, and having random, unconfirmed BS doesn't help us. Sorry for the language, but there's no other way to put it. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:18, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
Then information that might be telling an untold story go to waste. People that found those references will have their efforts go to waste. Do you really want that?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:20, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
You can quit pretending to be the good guy. The information you inserted wasn't Trivia, it was Trivial.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 22:22, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
And how does that differ from one another? If you don't want trivial stuff being published, you misnamed a whole section.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:24, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
And we come to the root of your argument. Definitions of Trivia and Trivial The two are different words, with different meanings. Your contributions were Trivial, not Trivia. Game, Set, Match.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 22:32, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
The definition of Trivia according to Merriam-Webster is unimportant facts, while trivial means of little worth or importance. There is a difference. Anyway, Hawk00Refferencer, why don't you just quit it? You won't change anyone's mind, and the fact is that this Wiki's Trivia policy has changed, and we no longer allow baseless trivia. Dang edit conflict. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:33, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
The fact that the Number is the 4th Rank 7 Number has as much reason to be posted as trivia as a lot of the other trivia I have seen on the wiki. I repeat, FACT. What are the odds that Number 74 would be released as the 4th Rank 7 Number? Coincidence? I think not. It is worth being on the currently nonexistent page and that is all there is to it. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 04:02, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
You just said it: one means unimportant, the other little worth, how is that different? If anything, it means that Trivia is worth less than trivial, because no importance is less than little importance, which makes my arguments stronger than yours.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 12:16, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
And can we all please agree to no longer say "you loose, you quit, discussion over", because the only people who say that in the middle of the discussion want to end it quickly because they don't want to see that development against their favor. The only way to end this discussion is to say "you're right, I give up". If you don't want to take part of the discussion, quit pretending like you care, exit discussion, and restore the lost knowledge.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 12:19, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
But if we post that Number 74 was the 4th Rank 7 Number, then we'd have to add to the page of Number 7: Lucky Straight that it was the 2nd Rank 7 Number, which really has nothing to do with the card, it's just random. Plus, you're implying that Number 74 was meant to be the 4th Rank 7 Number, simply because the numbers are reversed, but we don't have the facts or confirmation from the card's creator to confirm this. Also, NMBRHNTR64, you said you "think" it wasn't a coincidence, but you don't know that for sure, so until you can prove that Number 74: Master of Blades was released to become the 4th Rank 7 Number on purpose by Konmai, we won't add the trivia. In other words, you have to prove Konami choose that Number on purpose, and didn't go with another Number like 89 over 74. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:06, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
First off, no we would not because Number 7 is not Number 77. Second, whether Number 74 was meant to be released as the 4th Rank 7 Number or not, it is absolute fact that it is as its Number is 74. Coincidence or not, it is trivia. Third, NO ONE has the creator's confirmation about ANY reason you guys claim that why the Numbers have their Numbers. The fact that Number 39 sounds like "thank you" can be purely coincidence as well, yet it still worth mentioning in trivia. None of you guys know for sure that it is not a coincidence. Fourth, you say that if I can prove that this is why it has its Number, it can be trivia. Has anyone else proven why any any other Numbers have their Numbers? Nope. You have no proof for any other reason a Number has its Number, so why should I? NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 13:49, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
So, then, are you saying that we should remove all unconfirmed Numbers trivia then? I wouldn't be entirely opposed to that. We could institute a blanket rule, requiring a source for every single bit of trivia posted on Numbers pages in regards to their Number origins, and delete everything else.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 15:51, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Every Number has a different meaning which we must discover by ourselves. Ever heard of the expression "If you keep looking for number 23, you will find it"? Same thing, all it takes is a lot of perspectives. If it was you who designed the Numbers, what would you do to reference their values? It's not all just puns and word-plays, orderly numbers are meant to be used for symbolics as well.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 13:58, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Here's an alternative option for you. You could start a forum page and document all of the unconfirmed fan nonsense on there, in a similar fashion to the "List of reasons why cards are Limited" page. It would allow you to put this great "knowledge" somewhere, while allowing us to follow Wikia policy. TBH, that's about the only positive thing you're going to get out of this ill-founded crusade.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 15:51, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
I must convince you before I convince anyone else. And I haven't forgotten you haven't answered my question yet.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 15:56, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
You're not going to convince me. I may be adamantly against bad trivia in general on this Wikia, but this has nothing to do with me. I didn't make the policy, I just enforce it because I think the Wikia is better that way.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 16:01, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
I will start somewhere. So, why aren't you answering?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 16:09, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, and what we are arguing is not "fan nonsense" it is absolute fact that this is the 4th Rank 7 Number. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 16:11, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps you've forgotten, so I will ask again: Why are you afraid?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 16:13, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
No one has answered that question because it's ridiculous, and no one is going to answer that question. You act awfully dramatic for someone fighting over a few sentences on a web page.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 16:14, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Or can it be you want to keep avoiding it because you don't like the answer youself? --Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 16:16, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I'm sure that's it. Despite the fact that for the entire length of this argument, you've been doing nothing but repeating the same tired points that have been previously debunked again and again, I clearly have so much to be afraid about.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 16:20, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
And yet, even though you think that, you still will not answer the question. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 16:57, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
We aren't afraid, we just don't want to have to deal with the clutter that kind of trivia presents. You want one sentence on that page just because Number 74 happens to be the 4th Rank 7 Number, but that's way too general. If you want to have it that way, then Number 7: Lucky Straight needs to have on it's card trivia page that it was the 2nd Rank 7 Number. If Number 74 can have general trivia like that, then Number 7 should too. That's what you're arguing for, because if we let Number 74 have that trivia, then we have to let the other Rank 7 Numbers have that too just out of simple fairness, and the end result is that we have a bunch of trivia that most average users don't really care about. Just make a sticky forum thread in the General forum. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 18:25, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Our capital-lettering named friend there, however, has a point. If you're going to drop that trivia simply for it being an assumption, then all other Numbers trivia too shall be deleted, because there's no way to confirm Hope's 39 stands for the phrase "thank you". So why don't you delete that as well, and entirely terminate all meaning of Numbers?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 21:52, May 18, 2013 (UTC)


If I may, I like the idea of just simply getting rid of all "Numbers" related trivia on the trivia pages. Like NMBRHNTR64 said, it is impossible for us to confirm all the trivia. We can only make educated guesses based on the japanese name of the card in some cases. Then again, there are good exceptions, like Number 7: Lucky Straight, it's obviously Number 7 because 7 is considered a "Lucky" number in most of the world. Also, it's effect deals with 7 as a die roll, and it needs 3 Level 7 materials. Truly obvious things like that can probably stay on the trivia pages. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 18:31, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Looking at it like that, I am not opposed to that idea. You are absolutely right, there really is no actual proof of how the Numbers got their Numbers. And I also agree that the more obvious ones can stay. Not to mention, this would also end all conflict about the reasons they got them as well. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 18:43, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
This is pretty much what I suggested. I'm for it. We just need admins on board.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 19:05, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
I am okay with this. I believe there was a plan for a forum page, but that never got completed. Something like Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited, which people still contribute to today. --UltimateKuriboh (talkcontribs) 19:23, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yami, I did say that I "liked the idea", and it was your idea from further up. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 20:31, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
No big deal. You put it in a less antagonistic light.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 20:34, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Alright then, just to make sure we are all on the same page. We take all trivia that relates to any possible reason why a Number has its Number, and put it all on a Forum? NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 21:48, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
I think as long as the reason for the number isn't obvious, it's probably safe to move into a new forum thread, and then sticky that forum thread. However, I also think that it might be necessary to say somewhere on that page that the trivia is fan-based, in other words, we have reason to think it's that specific Number for what it is, but we aren't totally sure. We should also specify that the trivia on the forum page shouldn't be copied to the actual card trivia pages. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:05, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
That all seems good to me. Everyone else on board? NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 22:11, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
It's not a bad idea, but will people be looking at this forum the same way they are looking at this wikia as well? Because it doesn't seem right to seperate those two entirely.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:13, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
You can't have everything. That's the sacrifice you have to make to get it on the Wiki at all.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 22:19, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Hey Wheeler, chill out! He just wants it to be taken seriously. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 22:25, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
I hear you on that one. We should be sure to specify that they are all possible reasons Numbers have their Numbers. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 22:17, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'm all up for Dark Aces idea too. Shardsilver (talkcontribs) 22:24, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

But I have a condition. This entire discussion was threaded by the sheer fact that I disagreed with the admins, and for most of the time, their only arguments on the keeping of the policy was that they were in charge, and I wasn't. In case such a forum is to be held, how can I know my oppinion won't be shreaded down by the same kind of authority over again?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:28, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
There's far more leeway on the forums, because it isn't on the Wikia main pages and it isn't considered official, so I don't see why there would be a problem unless you make a nuisance out of yourself again.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 22:43, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Tsk, calling me nuisance after all the trouble they had me put through... Fine then. But if anyone chooses to reply on the above discussion, I will fight on to restore the trivia again. You may think I didn't come up with a reasonable argument, but neither did the opposite side. A conclusion hasn't been met. Have pride anough and allow me to defend myself.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:51, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Wheeler, quit starting arguments with Hawk. Hawk, quit responding to Wheeler. We just found a way to make everybody happy, we don't need another cat fight. (BTW, while I realize I don't really have the authority to tell you guys what to do, I just don't want any more conflict on this.) NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 22:59, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
In the end, your intentions were the best of all of us. "The conflict to end the conflict", what an annoying irony. I only wish it weren't so agressive. Think on the cause rather than on the rivality, you all. I don't wish this to drag out more than it needs to, but if there ever was a thing in the world I was willing to protect until the very end, then...
By the way, NMBRHNTR64, I can hardly imagine a nickname for you. What shall we call you?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 23:06, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
On wikis, I usually go by Yuma. I also go by NMBR, Number, Hunter, etc. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 23:25, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I hardly saw that sort of connection. How silly of me. Then, is Hunter okay? Kinda reminds me of Spades.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 23:32, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yup. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 23:48, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
I'm not "starting arguments" with anyone. We had come to an agreement before he decided to throw around conditions, so put him on a leash or stop talking. Frankly, no one was speaking to you, so I have no idea why you feel the need to get involved.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 23:01, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
See, now saying crap like that is going to start arguments. I just want everyone to be happy here, that is why I got involved. I saw your profile, so why not show us that "nice" side of you? NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 23:25, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
(In reply to Hawk) The level of viewing won't be entirely the same when you compare the official wiki card trivia pages to a forum thread, but the General thread is probably the best place for this, and it's usually one of the busier forums here on the wiki.
Actually, I'm wondering myself if there was something Wikia released that let's you see the views on the specific pages, it would be kinda interesting to see which pages receive the most views. But's not that really important. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:23, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Admin Support?[edit]

I'm pretty sure the idea of removing "Numbers" related trivia will be supported by some of the other Admins here on wiki. UltimateKuriboh is fine with it, but should we also ask User:Deltaneos and/or User:TwoTailedFox for their support as well? Again, I think they would be for it, but was thinking we should ask to be safe. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:41, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Not if I can find the reason against it.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 23:44, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
"Better safe than sorry" is something I always say. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 23:50, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
I'll ask Fox. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 00:25, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
Fox supports us. I think it's more than safe enough to create a forum for "Numbers" trivia. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 03:36, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
Good to know. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 03:39, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

What, is no one else going to have his say in this?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 20:22, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

I guess not? That being said, feel free to create a forum page so all the possible reasons for each Number's meaning can be listed there. We can make it professional-looking over time. --UltimateKuriboh (talkcontribs) 20:33, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
I thought that was to be done by an other admin. May I have the link once it's complete? I'm not done talking by a long shot.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:12, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
You're supposed to create the forum page on your own, there's no need for any of the admins to really get involved, unless you need help with making a navbox or collapsible table. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:26, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
However, if you want to use a collapsible table like the one on Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited, see How to create Tables. If you need more help, than ask. The code for Falzer's table isn't too complicated either by the looks of it. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:30, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
That was not the agreement. THIS here is the forum I had in mind, why would I create a seperate one? I know nothing about forums.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 10:44, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
I'll make another forum page for you then. However, do you want a table like the one at Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited, or do you want to avoid code and go for something really simple? And if you want to make a table, then give me a quick list of unconfirmed trivia for the first Number monster of your choosing. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 12:33, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
First of all, surprise me. And 2nd, we already established that, in your own definition, ALL Number trivia are unconfirmed.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 12:41, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
Sure. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 12:44, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


Forum:"Numbers" Xyz Monster Trivia --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:08, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I don't get it, how do you contribute to that table? I followed the instructions, and it keeps on molding bat-nets.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 13:37, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
No wait, I think I got it.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 13:40, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
Looks fine to me. I also removed a piece of redundant code on the #39 name box. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 14:11, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
There, it's done. Every last reference, allusion, deep meaning, reflection, pronounciation, numerology, value and trivia I could find and/or think of for all the Numbers in existence so far, excluding fanmade.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 19:01, May 29, 2013 (UTC)