Forum:September 2012 Banlist

From Yugipedia
Jump to: navigation, search


It's official, on Shriek.

Banned:

Limited:

Semi-Limited:

Unlimited:

Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 16:26, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

We already knew, thank you. --iFredCat 16:43, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
It has been put there as a point of reference for the discussion. --SuperSponge!! 16:52, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

My thoughts

Guess I'll start off the discussion. I'll start by saying how much better this list is than the March one, which proves that Konami can make good lists.

  • Future Fusion Forbidden - This card had it coming. If Dragons open with this, it'll take a miracle to beat them. It's even better in Dragons than Painful Choice, and that's Forbidden. I feel sorry for Gem-Knight Master Dia and Vision HERO Trinity, who will be unplayed now that they can't be used with this card for a quick dump of 3 monsters.
  • Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier Forbidden - Brionac has been the best Level 6 Synchro since Goyo Guardian was Forbidden, but I'm undecided as to whether he needed this treatment. Especially since we now have to use Orient Dragon or Gaia Knight, the Force of Earth for a Level 6 Synchro (or Flamvell Uruquizas if we really don't want to use the other 2).
  • Spore Limited - It remains to be seen whether Plants will gain new ground again with this card back. All I know is, Limited makes no sense, and if it turns out to be fine for the format, it could be at 3 and wouldn'd make a difference.
  • Tsukuyomi Limited - I'm worried about the Mask of Darkness/Drop Off loop, but otherwise I can't see this making such a huge impact competitively. Ironically, despite having said that, I myself have 3 deck that would love this card (Gravekeeper's, Worms and a deck that relies on switching the opponent's monster to Defense Position to destroy them with cards like Shield Crush).
  • Ultimate Offering Limited - I can't complain here, especially not with the Madolches so close to release. They and Gadgets just spammed this card.
  • Chaos Sorcerer Limited - Yes, I know, he can be searched by Justice of Prophecy, but I still would have rather seen Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning Forbidden. Maybe that should have happened and this should have been semi'd. Still, it's not that bad a move.
  • Inzektor Hornet Limited - I would have rather seen it Forbidden, but I guess this will do.
  • Inzektor Dragonfly Limited - Without Forbidding Hornet, hitting this was the best move to make to stop Inzektors.
  • Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon Limited - Stopping the Hieratic OTK and weakening the loop with Lightpulsar Dragon (because an REDMD and Lightpulsar on-field with an REDMD in-grave was annoying as hell to get round), this was definitely a right hit.
  • Evigishki Gustkraken Limited - I had no idea Hieratic Gishki were doing so well, but even so, I would rather have seen Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7 Limited instead, because this will hurt all Gishki decks. Limiting Messier 7 wouldn't have made him any harder to get out, since he lives in the Extra Deck, but now more search power will be needed to Summon this card easily.
  • Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity Limited - This had to go. Being able to stop the loop without Forbidding anything (and without hitting anything than resides in the main deck) was a great reason to Limit this, and it stops multiple Zenmaitys from Summoning each other to fill the field.
  • Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow Semi-Limited - Blackwings got another trick back. They having been doing anything, so this is fine.
  • Debris Dragon - Just like with Spore, we'll see if Synchro decks can rise up again. As long as they don't completely dominate, this is fine.
  • The Agent of Mystery - Earth Semi-Limited - I never thought this was the right hit to Agents, and I'd much rather have hit Master Hyperion. If Agents start to dominate again, I'd rather see Hyperion hit than this re-Limited.
  • Reasoning Semi-Limited - I always thought Monster Gate would be the card to come off first. Still, decks that use this haven't been doing anything, so this is fine.
  • Mirror Force Semi-Limited - A successful Mirror Force is just as deadly now as it was when this card was Forbidden. The difference now is that between Mystical Space Typhoon, Heavy Storm, Night Beam, Inzektor Hornet, Starlight Road, Stardust Dragon and The Huge Revolution is Over, successful uses of this card are fewer. It's still a solid game-changer, though.
  • Rescue Rabbit Semi-Limited - Rabbit needed hitting, and while I would have hit it harder, this will do, at least for now.
  • Tour Guide From the Underworld Semi-Limited - Again, I'd rather have Limited this to make it all but useless in non-Fiend decks, mainly so that decks can't just spam Wind-Up Zenmaines or Leviair the Sea Dragon. Still, this isn't too bad a hit.
  • A Hero Lives Semi-Limited - HEROes did need hitting, but I personally wouldn't have done it like this. I'd rather have seen Super Polymerization Limited. I know hitting it hurts consistency, but due to its restriction of having no monsters out, and halving your Life Points, I would rather have seen E-Call Limited and this not hit at all.
  • E - Emergency Call Semi-Limited - Hitting this actually does help, since it hits the consistency of a deck that runs 7 monsters. Not too bad a hit.
  • Hieratic Seal of Convocation Semi-Limited - I actually haven't seen Hieratics doing that much this format. This could have easily stayed at 3 and I wouldn't have noticed.
  • Pot of Duality Semi-Limited - Duality gives extra speed to decks that don't Special Summon much, ie the naturally slower decks. Taking one away lowers their chances against faster decks even more.
  • Marshmallon Unlimited - No-one was running it. No danger.
  • Necro Gardna Unlimited - Lightsworns are almost back to their full glory. With Charge of the Light Brigade still Limited though, they aren't doing much, so this is fine.
  • Destiny Draw Unlimited - Ever since they Limited Dark Armed Dragon and Semi-Limited Destiny HERO - Malicious, this has been unnecessary on the list. I'm glad it's finally back.
  • Emergency Teleport Unlimited - Same as with D-Draw. The Forbidding of Future Fusion also prevents people from replacing Malicious with Jinzo and Jinzo - Returner, so there's no reason for this card to stay on the list anymore.
  • Level Limit - Area B Unlimited - Has anyone used this since Xyz Monsters came out? It's fine off the list.
  • Swords of Revealing Light Unlimited - It's still a great stall card, but with so much S/T removal, it was time for this to come off.
  • Magic Cylinder Unlimited - it's great in burn decks, but they aren't doing anything. This in fine where it is.

To summarise:

Agree:

Neutral to:

Disagree:

Cards I wish had been hit harder:

Cards whose impact I am unsure about:

Battlemaniac (talk • contribs) 17:46, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, overall I agree with most of the list and am neutral to the rest. As for Gustkraken...Gishki duelists have an OTK with Evigishki Zealgigas, not that we need it, since usually Zealgigas stays around for a while. But yeah, it is one of the best lists in a while, and the cards hit are spot on. As for Tour Guide, why do you want it hit harder? Limiting it makes it almost useless in any deck, it makes it too hard to draw, and I'd rather not trade 1 card space for a Quick Rank 3 Summon. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 19:03, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

The reasoning behind banning Brionac is clear and simple; Mermails and Atlanteans. Their effects that are triggered by being sent to the graveyard to activate a WATER monster's effect are just too easily abused in conjunction with Brionac. Sure, you can still use Gungnir, but Brionac is just better.
Spore coming back is a big deal. A friend of mine has already gotten a Plant Synchro deck up and running on this list on DN, and it rips me apart when I'm using Dino Rabbit, Chaos Dragons or Wind-Ups. Just way too much hand advantage and recursion.
Hitting Rescue Rabbit any harder would have too much. At one, it would been as unplayable as Dark Ace says Tour Guide would be at one. It would completely kill off the Dino Rabbit deck, rather than just tempering it. And anyway, a lot of players have only run 2 Rabbit anyway, since the 3rd is more than likely a dead draw, unless you've activated Pot of Avarice prior to it. Shamus (talk • contribs) 14:28, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
Usually, you would run 3 Rabbit main deck, and then side out a Rabbit as needed for Games 2 and 3. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 14:38, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Basically what I thought

Looking back at my early post in the predictions topic earlier in the summer, I predicted most of this list. Only things I'm really not happy about are Hieratic Dragon King of Atum staying unlimited, Rescue Rabbit at 2 instead of 1, and Dark Worlds not getting hit. I was hoping for Grapha/Snoww to 1. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 18:59, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well, the only card that really effects my decks is Brionac, which kinda sucks, but now it gives me a reason to throw Zenmaines into my Extra Deck now.

On the other hand, how are Hieratics supposed to run without 2 REDMDs? That was like the main part of their strategy.

Glad to see Rabbit, Inzektors, and Wind-Ups take a hit, but how come Rabbit was semi-ed and not limited?

I'm surprised to see Seal of Convocation on there, as it seems too soon to ban a actual Hieratic card support card.

Lastly, why is BLS still limited? He should have been gone.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 19:03, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Hieratic can still function with 1 REDMD, the limited REDMD stops the OTK, but not Hieratic in general. As for Rabbit, the chances of opening with it have dropped, and Tour Guide is semi-limited, if people want to run 2 they can do so with Sangan, but it isn't super splash able, and thus wouldn't really help the deck, unless you really want to run 1 Tour Bus. Also, I like BLS, the card gives a top deck answer to situations where I might lose, and even if I win with that BLS, it was luck drawing into it, not a 100% chance. As for Chaos in general, Chaos Sorcerer is down to 1, so it's not like I have a super high chance of drawing into either of those 2 cards in a situation where I'm the one with less card presence and low LP. Also, last time I check, BLS wasn't searchable. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 19:40, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
Hieratics don't see much play right now, but limiting REDMD will make two things happen 1) Super Dreadnought Cannon Express Gustaph Max won´t be used, so its like banning this card too and 2)It will be even more difficult to see Hieratics in play. I basically agree with Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow Emergency Teleport and Necro Gardna, so we will se again Ligthsworns and Blackwings, 'cause Lighsworns can run more easily BLS and everyone that has BLS just looove it. Limiting A Hero Lives will hit Gladiator Beast too in one of its forms (I know that they have been forgotten, but it was a good combo). The Inzektos and Wind-Ups will have to come out with better ideas, and for Dino-Rabbit it still useable only slower (Gold Sarcophagus and Tour Bus From the Underworld). Madolches and Gear-Gadgets will be hited before we see all of their potential. But here is when the game starts to begin more interesting...Jaggo 80 (talk • contribs) 20:22, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Double mirror force, 3 copys of necro gardna, and kalut back up to 2, this a dream come true. too back bad REDMD was limited that hurts dragon decks but it had that coming to the card. I was hoping umlimited or unsemi-limited cards for infernity decks. --108.225.20.64 (talk) 21:12, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

I've played Geargia, and never had I once wanted to add in an Offering to it, I think Geargia are great the way they are, plus they work great with Machina Fortress. We probably will see some more Lightsworn and Blackwings, and HERO decks are still playable and still have 4 search cards, they'll survive, as for Lightsworns, they will make appearances, and they will be a problem for a bit (But not rampant), but without 3 Charge, they don't have super consistent access to the monsters they need. Same story for Blackwings, they only got 1 Kault back, and there main search card is still limited. But we really need to wait until YCS Toronto to see what happens. Also, Infernity Launcher is limited, and it helps stop them from having a consistent OTK, they're fine the way the are. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 21:20, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
  • I said before that many duelists will use Starlight Road. Two Mirror Force, two Torrential Tributes, Dark Hole, and Heavy Storm. But I would like to hear some thoughts on any new Destiny Builds. Maybe Absolute Zero will rise a bit, with better searchers for Deep Sea Diva and Destiny Draw at 3. Hopefully there's a decently splashable HERO monster TCG exclusive coming up. Fingers crossed.

|DED (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 22:14, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt that Konami will make more HERO support cards, and all the premiere and Exclusive cards for REDU are known I think. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:21, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I really like this list. The thought of being able to finally run 3 Destiny Draws in D - HERO decks is sweet, sweet honey to me; the Wind-Up hand loop is finally gone, as are the Hieratic shenanigans involving Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon and the constant spamming by Inzektors; Tsukuyomi is back, meaning that Spirits are as complete as I can hope (seeing as how Yata-san is never returning); and Debris Dragon to 2 helps Synchro decks as well as Ojamas. I'll be glad once September hits and this takes effect. PHASE (talk • contribs) 22:47, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

BTW, I was really hoping for them to ban Heavy Storm or MST so I would have a reason to put Night Beam in my deck. I got pulled one last week, but it is pointless to use when HS and MST are better cards.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 17:00, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

  • It'll only be sweet honey if they make ONE more decent Destiny HERO monster. Just one. Konami knows making one decent Destiny HERO monster could possibly make them explode in the format. They'd have to be really careful, if anything.

|DED (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 17:07, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Plus, unless I'm reading wrong, the TCG Exclusives for Return of the Duelist should be announced shortly, which contains Elemental HERO support. Not to mention Crystal Beast support and Neos support.

|DED (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 17:17, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Your HERO support comes in the form of Miracle Contact, nothing else. HEROes don't really need more support, especially since Excalibur is coming soon which will boost HERO beat quite a bit. 2.126.180.53 (talk) 17:59, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

My Thoughts

I'm probably the only one here who actually DOESN'T like this list. > >" I've been using dragons since I was really young, when the game first came out actually. And now to see most of the GOOD variants unable to be used in the face of this format is really disheartening. I guess I'll just be sitting out on duels till March... (Hoping they at least change the Ban List an gimmie Future back. Nah, screw that. Just my Metals at least)

I guess now it's time to wait till I can at least play a Photon Deck when Duelist Pack Kite comes out. All that abuse with Galaxy-Eyes and burn damage + heavy summoning artillery + revival capability.--66.91.199.222 (talk) 05:57, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

  • Obviosuly meta users don't like the banlist. Is it surprising they hit the top decks? If Destiny HEROs became tier 1, I would accept the fact that it would be 99% guaranteed that they would be hit the upcoming format. No need to whine about it.

|DED (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 20:48, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

I don't feel sorry for Future Fusion, I do kinda feel sad for Metal, but hey the thing was easy to summon, had 2800 ATK, and could summon almost any other Dragon, the only reason it was never hit, was because Dragons were never really a threat in the past, now they are a threat and it's not like they totally took away Metal, isn't 1 Metal better than 0? ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 00:36, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
So you are not going to play the game just because the limited some of the most broken dragon cards? That seems kind of babyish and lazy. When they limit or ban something you use, you just find something to replace it. Samurai users had to do it when Gateway and Shi-En were moved to 1. I have to remove Brionac from my deck, so I replaced him with Zenmaines. My Nordic Deck became useless earlier this year, so if I wanted to keep playing, I had to move on to something else, so I chose Samurais and it turned out they are a dominating force (not the Big 4, but still). Any game you play you need to adapt. You can't just stick with one set of cards and then quit when they remove a card from that deck.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:03, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Kain is right, although Nordic are still playable and haven't been hit by the F&L list. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 17:05, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
How are Nordics still playable? The deck does not have enough support cards to make it competable.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:21, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt all archetype support cards are even used in competitive decks, besides they have a search card in the form of a trap, what else do you want? They also have somewhat universal tuners, and other general Synchro support cards. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:35, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

You all have good points. But I don't see the point. I put effort into a deck and grow personal attachment and I have to go and play a new deck just because that's what's "in" and waste my money? All because they rendered my deck useless through the banlist? That seems even more stupid in an economic sense. Sorry, I don't play that game. If they want me to try a new deck, they're gonna have to give me a more sensible reason then "if you don't do it we'll eventually make your deck unusable via banlist". That's why a lot of my friends switched to Magic. They thought the whole economic set up of Yugioh was plain stupid. It's my favorite deck that they've taken, but I have others. For example, I like my Cyber Dragons, Nordics and Photons. It didn't take a ban list to make me play them, they simply made their style of play interesting. But if you don't get to use your favorite cards, what's the point in it really?

And NO 1 metal does NOT work in any form of disaster dragon deck. I dare any of you to prove me wrong on that, I highly doubt you'll find a way to make a good disaster deck without at least 2 metals. I'm sorry I have the sensibility to NOT buy more cards just because the ban list likes to be a pain in the arse. I stick to what I like, and that's what I duel with. Now when DP Kite comes out I may have a reason to actually buy something fun and play again. Until then, I'm dropping this game for awhile. I don't know how old you guys are, but seriously, you're gonna buy all new cards, make a whole new deck and invest time and money JUST because of the banlist? Seriously? I've never done that before. Won't start now. Meanwhile, I DON'T buy and replace, or invest time into making a new deck. I save time and money. Plain and simple. Just thought I'd make my opinion known and go against the norm. It's also sad to watch the older players bully the younger players over the ban list. You shouldn't go running around telling a poor nine year old kid that something's banned so they can't play until they change it. (Someone I know did this to a young kid at our local playing ground and made the poor twerp cry) It just looks pathetic that someone would give that much of a rip over a piece of paper. If that's you, I apologize in advance for most likely offending you. And just food for thought: If they printed a card just to make it unusable at some point later in time, why print it all and for us, why buy it at all? Answer me that and I'll admit I'm wrong. Until I get a reasonable answer, I stand by my opinion. --66.91.199.222 (talk) 06:49, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

You can blame Konami for trying to make money and all, but hey facts are facts. Metal wasn't super fair in any way, easy to summon, 2800 ATK, summons another beater to the field for free. Yeah, and it took the loop of Lightpulsar Dragon to make Konami hit it, you can also blame Konami for making Lightpulsar Dragon, but the thing isn't very overpowered or crazy without a consistent Metal in the grave, and 1 Metal achieves that, and 0 FF means there isn't a quick way to dump that and other dragons into the grave. But if you want to look at things positively, you can always use Foolish Burial or Dragon Ravine? Not super playable, but doable. Also, if you don't like what Konami did (Most people actually like what Konami did this format), go play Magic like your friends (Or if you want something like YGO, see Cardfight Vanguard), and stop complaining, instead of trying to make a case here about how Konami took your money and then made your deck horrible. It's what has happened to a bunch of decks in the past, and I don't see why the newer Dragons that top tournaments and take Top 32 spots should be exempt from that. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:35, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Gadjiltron's Opinions

Okay, starting from the strongest (both positive and negative) feelings on the banlist...

  • Inzektor Hornet and Inzektor Dragonfly - YES, thank you. The Hornet loop has been a nightmare since there's no clear way of crippling it. Hitting Dragonfly also forces them to use up their Normal Summons in the loop.
  • Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon - While I've only seen one instance of a Hieratic Deck using Inferno Reckless to bring out three of them, that one instance was enough for brickshitting.
  • Tsukuyomi - Really? It's more or less a reusable Book of Moon that can kill things. Okay, granted, it can't strangle Ignition effects like the Book, but flipping things down is a very convenient way of cancelling monster effects.
  • Evigishki Gustkrake - No, really, I don't get it. I understand this is a reusable, watered-down Trap Dustshoot. What I don't understand is what kind of tournament-worthy Deck can consistently top while sporting this.
  • Wind-Up Zenmaity - Aw, bummer. And here, as a Hunterless player, I was thinking Forbidding Hunter would be a good way to cripple the loop. At least my Extra Deck now has a couple of free slots now...
  • Ultimate Offering - Tch, they caught on to Gadget Xyz too. Guess I'll swap a Call of the Haunted back in now.
  • Mirror Force - Should I start searching for extra copies, or stick to one per Deck? ...I guess I'll remain with what I have.

Other entries on the list are met with an "eh." response. At least until my relevant friends take note and adjust accordingly. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 02:33, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

About Evgishki Gustkrake, there has been a small loop regarding this and Hieratic monsters using Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7 for recycle and destroy the hand, much like the Wind-Up Loop so Gustkrake got hit. ----SharkTenjo 02:42, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
The loop was even more powerful than wind us because it destroyed the whole hand and it left you with 2 big beaters. And fo some reason, people fail to understand the power of level 8 hieratics. I play them with 2 Level 8s 2 Level 6s and only 1 Redmd. It is capable of fieldclearing moves easily and can OTK with different moves.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 06:55, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

I honestly believe there should be a topic about what the meta next format is going to look like, before it actually happens. What tier will Chaos Dragons go down to now? What tier will Blackwings go up to now? Junk decks? Agents? Tele-Zombie? Stall? |DED (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 20:57, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

My thoughts

Pretty good list IMO

Banned:

Limited:

  • Inzektor Dragonfly - Finally hitting the Inzektor loop, this should hurt Zekts considerably.
  • Inzektor Hornet - See Dragonfly.
  • Chaos Sorcerer - Not sure why, it's certainly overpowered to be unlimited, but not many were using it... preemptive limit because of Spellbook of Life?
  • Spore - I guess they decided they hit Plant Synchro too hard, and I agree. Shouldn't be an issue with Glow-Up gone.
  • Tsukuyomi - Interesting... I wonder if anybody will use it. Its most broken combos shouldn't be a problem anymore with no TER or Magician of Faith, but Mask of Darkness + Drop Off? I guess that one's a little slow though.
  • Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon - About time Chaos Dragons got hurt, and hits Hieratic OTK too.
  • Evigishki Gustkrake - I don't know the exact mechanics of the loop with this, I just heard that it exists, but I agree because I hate hand loops.
  • Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity - Good, Wind-Ups will have a harder time hand looping now and won't spam so many Xyz.
  • Ultimate Offering - Agree, Madolche and Gadgets can OTK too easily with this.

Semi-Limited:

Unlimited:

108.196.206.15 (talk) 02:12, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Future Fusion

Am I the only one who thinks this was pretty disappointing? Now my cyber dragon deck is dead along with my fAntasy worm deck. They should have hit five headed IMO. What aRe people doing instead of future fusion now? More lightsworns? Thedarkdoor (talk • contribs) 15:58, August 22, 2012 (UTC)thedarkdoor

Your probably not the only one, but I think most people wanted Future to go away, it was just a problem when a card could act like another Foolish Burial or worse. As for the replacement, I would think more Lightsworn, but Lightsworns aren't perfect, and it isn't guaranteed you'll mill the cards you need to mill. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 16:23, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
  • Smh. If your deck is dead by one card being hit, it probably couldn't do much anyways. Reliant decks will never be good.

|DED (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 18:21, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

  • I'm sad that FF is gone but it needed to go, sure they could have just done away with Five Headed but it was also being abused by Heroes as well. Plus for Cyber Dragon and Worm decks it could be used in much the same way for an OTK. I'm hoping they release a less broken version of FF so cards like Worm Zero and Cyber End Dragon are playable again at some point.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 00:08, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

6 Cards which DO NOT Deserve to be on the LIST: 1) Black Whirlwind: Wind-Up Factory's Unlimited, so making Black Whirlwind 2 would make the tournament scene far more competitive 2) Infernity Launcher: Rather than ban Wind-Up Zenmaity, a better idea(in my opinion) would be to Semi, or even De-Limit Launcher. That way, Wind-Up duelists would think before sending cards to the Graveyard 3) Charge of the Light Brigade: It would be fair, because by banning Chaos Sorcerer, Lightsworn has already been hit, so it would be best to even it out by de-Limiting this Card. 4) Rescue Cat: If Rabbit is Semi-Limited, why not Rescue Cat? 5 ) Fishborg Blaster: Now that Brionac, the go-to Synchro is gone, why keep Blaster Forbidden? I would still like to see some Coelecanth builds give a fight, so the best way to make Fish competitive is this 6) Mind Master: Mind Master has some awesome combos, but keeping it Limited would be fair, and also would give a boost to Psychic In my opinion, these changes would break the monopoly of the Big 4 and revive Synchro summons, which seemingly everybody has forgotten!

Nowadays, Rescue Cat should NEVER come back, particularly with 2 Summoner Monk. You could even spam it repeatedly in a single turn with Unifolia, Holy Spirit of the Forest. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 12:35, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Saying Launcher needs to come at 2 is like saying Gateway needs to come at two (both decks are still very playable). Rescue Cat could come back. People need to stop thinking about the worst-case scenario of bringing a card back. So it can make good plays; so what? Last time I checked Dino Rabbits, Chaos Dragons, Wind-Ups, and HEROs can make good plays. Rescue Cat would help out what? X-Sabers, Gladiator Beasts, and Flamvell Cat? Oh TOTALLY top-tier. And on top of that, Pot of Avarice is at 1, Goyo, Brionac, Giant Trunade, Cold Wave, and Oppression are banned, priority is gone, and Solemn Warning exists. But yes, now Summoner Monk is at 2, Call of the Haunted is at 3, and Rescue Rabbit around could give a whole different deck idea with Rescue Cat. Overall, am I worried about some broken plays? yeah. But I'm worried about broken plays with Infernities and Six Samurais too. Am I worried about Rescue Cat breaking the meta? NO.

|DED (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 19:33, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

However, something as sick as Summoner Monk > Second Summoner Monk > Rescue Cat > Tribute Rescue Cat > 2 Unifolias > Tribute Unifolia > Rescue Cat > Tribute Rescue Cat > 2 Airbellums > Tribute Second Unifolia > Rescue Cat (XYZ the Summoner Monks by this point) > Tribute Rescue Cat > Third Airbellum and Third Unifolia > Tribute Third Unifolia > Rescue Cat > Tribute Rescue Cat > 2 Vanilla Beasts if you run Rabbit > XYZ the Beasts OR Synchro with the Airbellums > (XYZ) Leviair > use Leviarir > Grab Banished Rabbit > Win. NVM. As fun as that sounds, keep Rescue Cat banned. |DED (Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 21:19, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Creative Solutions

For those with a Chaos Dragon deck, I highly suggest watching duels played by Winston. He ran a deck without Future Fusion to begin with, and it ran beautifully. Granted, the deck was hit by the banlist ever so slightly with the banning of Metals, semi limiting of Tour, and the limiting of Sorcerer. But since some people seem worked up over the list, I figured I'd try to help out a bit.

Monsters

Darkflare Dragon: Yeah... That kinda sucked didn't it? Chaos down to 1 and Metals to 1. Not hopeless though and depending on your style of play, not a problem at all! This is just me, but put a third Darkflare in for where the second Metal went if you ran three. With Future gone, you have to find more innovative ways to mill and this is pinpoint and hits what you want. Yes, it's slower but there's a reason for this. For example, discard Wyvern if it's in your hand. Wyvern goes off, remove the 1 Metal or any other large beat stick of your choice. Put any dragon of your choice in grave. Banish Wyvern, hello Metal. Summon Metal, revive larger dragon. This is only one of several things you can do with a Darkflare so having three is nice. Plus, he's level 5 which makes him nice and flexible for synchro summons.

Divine Dragon Appocralyph: A lot of people will tell you a lot of things about this guy. I know a good friend of mine LOVES to loop LaDD with this thing and trust me, once that loop really gets going it sucks. But for today, Divine's purpose is to fish out of the grave. He's a walking Monster Reincarnation in monster form. Meaning, I can use him more than once if I'm lucky. You know that annoying thorn in your side duelist who just blew up your Metal but failed to remove it? With this, it's very easy to get him back. Just discard 1 to get him back. He's a great replacement for your 2nd Chaos Sorcerer. Nowhere near as good, but he'll add an the chance to recycle in your deck which can come in handy if you enjoy milling.

Morphing Jar: Many won't believe me when I say this, but this thing is pretty freakin' useful in a deck like this. For the big plays, you tend to use up most of your hand. You probably only have monsters you seriously couldn't use or spell and trap cards that don't do much. Set them if you need them later, and set Jar. Maybe leave one card in your hand for dumping into the grave for a chaos summon. They flip Jar, you let lose its effect and hopefully they had a lot of cards in your hand and you didn't. Then, they lose cards while you barely lost anything on top of replenishing your hand.

Summoner Monk: With Tour Guide down to 2, it can be useful to make sure you can keep up the same kind of monster summoning speed. So, we use Monk. If you run Wyverns they're the perfect target. Get them out, overlay, Utopia right there. And if they make you detach, you can easily send Wyvern to the grave and start things up easy.

Tragoedia: Saved my bacon against someone. Great replacement for the third Metal. Take battle damage, he can either be the impregnable wall, or just sit there as an extra thorn in the enemy's side. His level adjustment ability can be useful, but he also serves to keep the light and dark ratio somewhat even.

Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon: The card that everyone takes one look at and goes, "Oh boy, here we go" but it does work in a deck of this nature. Most big time game enders have 3000+ ATK points. So, Galaxy-Eyes can either stalemate, or hop over them with his effect. That and he dodges some of the more annoying traps so he functions as an excellent decoy. On top of that, he creates another target for Wyvern which ups its usefulness when ran at 2.

Queen Dragun Djinn: For those who don't run her, she might be useful as an extra decker. She can't perfectly mimic Metal, but she can bring things back from the grave for the more special forms of summoning like xyz and synchros. Depending on how you wanna play, she can serve as useful retriever for your deck. Her monster form, Lady of D. could potentially be used but I'd say it's not a very good idea. You can totally side deck it if you feel the need to use it since its walling can help with setting up (especially since you can easily discard things you want in the grave from your hand if they try to destroy her).

Other recommendations: For those who haven't already been, run those Lightsworns. Without Future, we need those things and anything that takes things out of our deck to set up the grave. Lyla and Ryko being the most important as they help with field control. Additionally, look into Card Trooper, who can mill and/or go for the suicidal bomb or wall for a free draw. It doesn't hurt. Also, for those synchro fans out there, run Veiler at 2 and use 1 Fabled Raven. It will cut down your defenses slightly but you also get the advantage of possibly discard something to the grave to set up for a summon, and you can adjust its level as you please. Used right, it can be quite the trouble maker.

Spells

D.D.R. - Different Dimension Reincarnation: Dragon users everywhere (where I live and beyond) raged when Future Fusion went away. Hard. It's not the end of the world though. That just means you have to use alternate means to mill (as said above) and now, you can get more creative and perhaps even add a card in that wasn't in your deck before that could improve it. This card for example, works nicely for a deck that banishes so very often. Since you'll be banishing a lot, you always want a back up in case your opponent banishes the cards you seriously need. This just provides a little insurance that you're favorite beat sticks aren't going anywhere.

Gold Sarcophagus: For those who just don't wanna let the Lightsworns hog all the glory. This lets you search for whatever you want too. So it's slightly better, albeit slower.

Pot of Avarice: Many will say, "What are you thinking?!" like Galaxy-Eyes but it does work. There will inevitably be times when you overmill and leave yourself dangerous close to deck out. This at least may buy you extra turns and depending on how bleak the situation is- more cards to your hand. Heck, maybe you just wanna reuse some things for kicks. It just gives you something useful- options.

Lightning Vortex: Puts things in grave, blows stuff up. Self-explanatory. Dark Hole better be in the deck before you put this in, but it serves as excellent insurance that you have a second means of destroying monsters if your having a bad spell and trap only hand day.

Traps

While I did recommend Winston's build as a model, he did not use traps. I am simply adding this section for those who feel they need that extra protection traps provide and may not exactly know what to go with. Traps I found to work well include,

Solemn Judgment: Standard, ultimate nope button.

Solemn Warning: Standard staple, but really important for certain decks that you may run into.

Fiendish Chain: It can either halt a really large threat, and/or halt a really annoying effect. Either way, this thing's awesome.

Call of the Haunted: Just because one Monster Reborn isn't enough. This may be crucial now since we lost 2 Metals but again, there are ways around that problem.

Disclaimer

I'm by no means a pro, and these are just cards I have experimented with and found to work well against even bigger decks like Heroes and Galdiator Beasts (Oh how I hate those things). I'm just saying, even with Future banned and two Metals gone with the wind, there're still ways to make this deck work. People were really upset when some of their dragon decks were killed by the loss of Future. So, I thought I'd try and help out a little. For the poor guy further up who lost his deck to the banlist... My condolences dude, but you should try Chaos Dragons. If your favorite cards were lights or darks, this just might work for ya. Even then, I would say I proved you wrong: it may not be disaster, but it's still a good dragon deck. --DaemonNova (talk • contribs) 10:25, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't see where you get off telling someone they are lazy because they don't like a game anymore when cards they like get banned.

I probably will stop playing in a few days when Brio is banned or just not conform to the new banlist. It's not like I play at many tournaments anymore. I jumped through hoops to get my cards, and I don't want to just put it in the binder for the next forever, just like I did with trish, all because they make an archetype that is easily abused by it. Besides they could have created other solutions they have just gotten used to banning/limiting any thing that causes an uproar. I have never lost to a rabbit deck with my samurai deck (Though my samurai deck was left untouched by the ban list). As far as that would leave me concerned they clearly didn't need semi-limited, but other players didn't feel that way.

As for top decks being hit, they have alternatives to weaken a deck without out right banning (or limiting) their most useful cards. They can errata them or try and balance the environment by releasing new card for other archetypes (the latter is not the best option but what ever).

Also telling someone they should conform to the game is never right. It's a game not a war it should be about fun, but it never is.

Enjoy your new banlist :D

Kordeleski (talk • contribs) 22:57, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Errata is only used to correct mistakes or make cards easier to understand, it will never be used to make cards more fair, only the banlist has the right to make the game fair. Well, if you don't conform to the game, just play traditional, if you play advanced you need to conform, there is that option for people who hate their card getting hit. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:27, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
Didn't they errata Necrovalley so that cards can remove them selves from the graveyard (though not banish)?
I was not saying that is something they are doing, I said it was an alternative to keep cards people like in the game. They didn't have to release trade toad. They could have just changed its name and art to substitoad, but they didn't.

Kordeleski (talk • contribs) 00:55, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

From the wide differences in effects between Tradetoad and Substitoad, it would be much more confusing if it got errata'd to such a completely different effect. Just play Traditional if you want to play banned cards. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 10:16, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

The effect of Necrovalley has never changed. Only the wording, to make it more clear what the card does. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 15:52, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://yugipedia.com/index.php?title=Forum:September_2012_Banlist&oldid=2284109"