Forum:Why Confiscation should be limited

This.

Sorry, forgot to sign. No One Special (talk • contribs) 22:47, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

It's Banned, you dope. It's because pay 1000 LP to select 1 card out of opponent's hand included a cheating to see your opponent's hand. --FredCat ^{Ta.P. • F.P. • J.R. • W.S. • Th.P. • S.C.} 22:48, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

I know it's banned. I'm saying it should be limited. No One Special (talk • contribs) 22:50, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Would you like me to activate three Confiscations toward you and made your decide difficult by time your turn coming? --FredCat ^{Ta.P. • F.P. • J.R. • W.S. • Th.P. • S.C.} 22:59, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Do you know what Limited is? Please don't act ignorant. Would you like me to use Honest on your 4000 attack monster when it attacks my puny 100 attack light monster? No One Special (talk • contribs) 23:03, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

I really don't understand this argument. Confiscation is banned, and one of the reasons it shouldn't be limited is because it can stop Honest. 76.250.226.248 (talk) 01:54, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

I have another argument against Confiscation coming off the Forbidden List. If anything, unlike Trap Dustshoot, you can activate it when your opponent's hand is of any size. This allows you to toss out whatever last card is left in their hand, usually leaving them topdecking and very vulnerable by then. Furthermore, if your opponent does have more cards left in their hand, you get to see what else they have left, and can act accordingly with Psi-Blocker or Mind Crush or the like. All of this thrown into a Normal Spell which can be used rightaway, and at 1000 LP the cost isn't too much to bear. So what if it can stop Honest? It's still overly powerful in many other situations. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 04:04, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

As mentioned above, if you hate 1 of their 2 Honest that much, just use Trap Dustshoot / Mind Crush / Prohibition / Psi-Blocker / Angel O7 etc..., as Confiscation is just a free +1-Resk (talk • contribs) 10:59, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Confiscation is a 1 for 1, not a +1.

Anyway, the traps need to stay on the field for a turn, and everyone and their mother runs Royal Decree. Prohibition needs to stay on the field, and everyone and their mother runs Mystical Space Typhoon. The monsters need to stay on the field, and everyone and their mother is running Lightning Vortex or Dark Hole (who decided to unban Dark Hole while banning Heavy Storm, anyway?) Confiscation can be used immediately, doesn't need to stay on the field, and isn't countered by stuff everyone and their mother has.

As for the argument about kicking them while they're down... Can we ban Drop Off, Robbin' Goblin, Huge Revolution, Royal Decree, Jinzo, Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8, Silent Swordsman LV7, Anti-Spell Fragrance, Solemn Judgment, Short Circuit, etc...? No One Special (talk • contribs) 13:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

HERP DERP no. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 01:29, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Why not? No One Special (talk • contribs) 19:19, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Why would you ban any of those cards? Jens (talk • contribs) 08:39, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

It's sarcasm. No One Special (talk • contribs) 19:19, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

"Confiscation is a 1 for 1, not a +1." Um.. you use one card to gain one card, opponent loses one card, net total:

you 0,

foe -1,

thus: +1.

-Resk (talk • contribs) 12:33, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

You use one card, therefore losing a card. Your opponent loses a card. That makes it a 1 for 1. Confiscation does not return to your hand after use, nor does it give you a card. Please read Confiscation's effect. No One Special (talk • contribs) 19:19, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, I was thinking of the wrong card, nrm-Resk (talk • contribs) 19:27, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

actually, it is a 1 for 1 with a see your hand bonus, which may make it 1+. Also, paying life points is too simple a cost. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 19:54, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Deck Devastation Virus lets you see your opponent's hand AND their face-down monsters, and blows up almost everything if your opponent's using something like Frogs or Watts. Should we ban it?

Objection! Deck Devastation Virus comes with a difficult activation cost (DARK monster with 2000+ ATK) that involves the loss of a potentially powerful beatstick. Of course when you're going through the trouble to activate this, you'll need to get something more than just seeing the opponent's hand. Confiscation, on the other hand, has a cost for LP payment - not that big of a deal, considering how things like Premature Burial and Royal Oppression has been abused back and forth when it was around - and you're still getting a couple of good effects. LP payments are much easier costs to deal with than discarding or Tributing for cost. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 00:30, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Summon Blackwing - Bora the Spear. Drop Mystic Plasma Zone. You can even use it when the monster's about to get blown up through effect. No One Special (talk • contribs) 01:45, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

• Still, not all Decks have some way to pull out a DARK monster with over 2000 ATK consistently. Confiscation does not need stuff like this - just pay 1000 LP and you already get to use its amazing effects. That makes it splashable, and the splashability of cards is also part of a factor in getting them into the Forbidden/Limited/Semi list. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 07:12, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

My Body as a Shield, Bottomless Trap Hole, Dark Hole, Gold Sarcophagus, Swords of Revealing Light, etc. are splashable, all of them lack any costs and they can all really throw you off. Yet none of them are Forbidden (for Christ's sake, Dark Hole BLOWS UP THE FIELD). Losing one card in your hand is apparently the end of the world, apparently more game-breaking than losing a 17600 attack point monster to a puny 100 attack point monster because you couldn't clear your opponent's hand like you could their spells and traps. No One Special (talk • contribs) 21:22, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

• You appear to have heard me wrongly. I said spashability is a factor in getting the cards onto the Forbidden/Limited/Semi list. Right now, all but one of the cards you've listed (Granted, My Body as a Shield isn't anywhere there because of its relatively higher cost and specific wording) is somewhere on that list, though not necessarily Forbidden. You're proposing that we bring Confiscation back, a card that can be thrown into every Deck thinkable, just because of one (maybe two) cards which are actually partially restricted in use. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 00:56, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Dark Bribe/Solemn Judgment can be splashed into every deck imaginable. Solemn Judgment is limited, and Dark Bribe is unlimited. And what's that? A minute ago you were saying costs weren't a big deal. 1500 life points is nothing to blow up many cards that can screw you over. No One Special (talk • contribs) 01:07, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

• Now, let's weigh several factors which determine how much of a deal a cost is -how much you pay, what you get, and when you can play it. For Confiscation, at 1000 LP, you see your opponent's hand, have the liberty of messing up their future options, and you can use it at any time, leaving your opponent topdecking at certain times. For My Body as a Shield, at 1500 LP, you can block off any effect that destroys in response to its activation, which would safeguard your momentum. Many would argue that MBaaS is balanced, as the 1500 LP is worth blocking off that effect. That I cannot dispute. Confiscation entitles you to being able to predict what your opponent will have in store for you, gives you the ability to tamper with that, and, unlike similar things like Trap Dustshoot, can be activated regardless of your opponent's hand size. 1000 LP for this is quite unjustifiable. Remember, being able to pick and discard anything from your opponent's hand is a very potent card, especially in a card game where draw power is deliberately being controlled. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 12:21, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

That's overpowered, but Honest, which only needs to be sent to the graveyard to ruin any attack (and, depending on the attack target, inflict massive damage) isn't. I got you. Robbin' Goblin can leave your opponent topdecking when you're already hitting them, but that's perfectly fine (well, I guess it is balanced by the fact that everyone and their second cousin twice removed is running Royal Decree, which somehow didn't get banned when Imperial Order did.) Hell, a well-built Exodia deck can win before your opponent even gets a turn, but that's balanced. Yeah. But just discarding one card of your choice for 1,000 life points is too overpowered, even though it's a one-for-one and it doesn't change the condition on the field otherwise. Makes perfect sense. No One Special (talk • contribs) 21:17, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

• Let me just discuss each bit here...
  • Discard-at-random effects pale in comparison to discard by choice since you just have as much of a chance of getting something your opponent wants in the Graveyard as hitting something your opponent doesn't. Robbin' Goblin, if you haven't quite figured out yet, requires other cards to do the damage needed for its effects. Confiscation's different - it doesn't need anything else to work, only that its effect is not negated.
    • No, you're much more likely to hit something important. About half of a normal deck is monsters. The other half are spells and traps. Almost all spells and traps are completely useless in the graveyard. Some monsters are useful in the graveyard, but many don't have any special effects in the graveyard, though they can be brought back with stuff like Monster Reborn. Nomis are completely useless in the graveyard except to fuel other effects. That said, with complete hand depletion, your opponent would be hard-pressed to take advantage of all of the cards in the graveyard.
  • I've tried Exodia OTK. It's a bit unstable. You either win on the very first turn, or you fail to do so and leave yourself very very vulnerable. No matter how well it's built, the latter is just as likely to happen as the former. In that one other turn your opponent gets he can potentially break the draw loop you need to finish drawing out Exodia.
  • Imperial Order has a LP cost which you can choose not to pay, meaning that you can let it be destroyed on your next turn to give a temporary one-sided Spell lock. Royal Decree doesn't have this - once you play it, you're also locked of your traps, with no way to destroy it except through other card effects.
• I have to agree that Honest is quite overpowered, especially when you stack them in the same Battle Phase. Which is why it's Semi'd right now. Though, to be honest, I (and perhaps many other players) would prefer it to be Limited. Wouldn't you agree? With one less Honest, the incidence of battle reversals with its effect would drop, greatly reducing your frustration of it. After all, Honest is the reason why you want Confiscation at 1, don't you? Better have 1 Honest and 0 Confiscation and to both our satisfaction, than 2 Honest and 1 Confiscation. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 06:39, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that would work out fine. No One Special (talk • contribs) 22:38, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

I suppose see hand, so maybe a +0.5-Resk (talk • contribs) 20:08, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

"Look at opponent's hand and discard anything. AKA 1 for 1 card + see opponent's hand bonus." I don't think they need to take it off the list. ShortCircuitFTW (talk • contribs) 02:44, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see it as overpowered, not any more than Honest is. No One Special (talk • contribs) 22:14, November 15, 2010 (UTC)