Forum:Xyz materials on monsters that get equipped to another monster

Alright. I am aware that Xyz Materials are "sent to the Graveyard" when the monster leaves the field under any condition. I am also aware that the materials do not leave if the monster is flipped face-down. My question is what happens when a monster ceases to be a monster while having an xyz Material. This is currently possible with "Number 58: Burner Viser" and I was already interested with cards like "Relinquished" anyway... --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 07:52, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Sent to the grave.--Lê (talk • contribs) 08:55, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, I am not trying to disagree. I am curious, however. Was there a Judge Ruling for this or did Konami actually say what happend somewhere and I haven't found that yet? --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 14:02, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

It's the same as if a monster that has equip spells equipped to it becomes an equip spell. Those cards are sent to the graveyard. The monster in question is no longer a monster, but a spell card, vulnerable not to cards like Dark Hole, but rather Mystical Space Typhoon. There won't be an official ruling because it's an obvious thing. Jet-Black Nova (talk • contribs) 14:19, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Just keep in mind that your "obvious thing" has a flaw: Face-down monsters also lose their Equips. Face-down monsters cannot have anything attached to them. So, why do Xyz Materials? Am I wrong about that? Also keep in mind that we now have some false-union Xyz. "Number 58: Burner Viser", "Number 80: Rhapsody in Berserk" and "Number C80: Requiem in Berserk" all can attach themselves and so there might be a need for an "official ruling" due to Xyzs skating the rule about face-down already. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 19:34, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Because the rulebook says that Face-down monsters can have materials.--Lê (talk • contribs) 04:46, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, so just to summarize, Xyz Materials remain on a face-down monster due to a ruling about Xyz Materials specifically saying that they remain. I actually read that from my own book and am not disputing that. The issue that still has me confused is "When an Xyz Monster leaves the field, all of the Xyz Materials attached to it are sent to the Graveyard." If the Xyz becomes a equip, it is not exactly "leaving the field". Would this instead be the rule where (like Equip Spells on the monster becoming the Equip) the focus of the card is no longer valid? (Monster equip with a Spell Equip must be a Monster Card, therefore if it becomes a Spell Card the focus is lost.) And this would be Xyz Materials remain with the Xyz they were used to make, if it is not an Xyz then they lose their focus? --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 19:22, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Equip Spell Cards cannot have Xyz Materials, only Xyz Monster Cards can. What else you want?--Lê (talk • contribs) 22:00, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Should I list everything? Or just what pertains to your question? You seem to come off a bit rude to me, so I would like a little bit of a nicer attitude. I have been playing this game for over a decade. I am not just someone demanding this game follow my rules.

More to the point, I am trying to see if there is a specific rule that says anything about the topic question. Understanding the rules and rulings are vital in this game. See the "specific wording" issues that then devolved into "Fairy Meteor Crush" becoming stronger while equipping it to your opponent's monster. I am specifically understanding the situations behind the cause. More specifically, I am trying to determine if the Xyz Materials have a sense of focus like Equip Spell Cards do. If they require a "target" of sorts, it shows how they can be manipulated later in this game. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 03:27, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

A spell card cannot have xyz material. Therefore a monster that is treated as a spell card cannot have xyz material. You are literally trying to make a problem where there is none. The materials go to the graveyard? You want another example? Same thing happens if Number 101 or Number C101 uses its effect to take an xyz monster. It is not longer treated as a monster card, but an xyz material, material cannot have material and thus they are sent to the graveyard. Rulings are important, but 90% of the rules are conjecture based off of the way other cards work. So stop piddling in your boots, thinking being an old school player entitles you to respect. Been playing since the TCG debut in 1999 and I can tell you this: You're being an insufferable child who refuses to accept an answer. So you can piss about and fight the truth or accept it and move on.

My attitude is not a reflection of this wiki, but my words are still true; xyz material is discarded when the monster is no longer a monster. Jet-Black Nova (talk • contribs) 03:45, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

To build on his point from C101, that logic explains why all forms of Chaos Xyz Change contain the sentence "Xyz Materials attached to that target also become Xyz Materials on the Summoned monster." Otherwise all the Material underneath would fall into the Graveyard.

Generally, Xyz Materials, once successfully attached, don't really mind what happens to the monster they're attached to, unless that monster stops being an Xyz Monster on the field, no matter how momentarily. That's their only "focus", compared to Equip Spells which demand that the equip target continue be a face-up monster that matches their equip requirements. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 04:21, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Your attitude (Jet-Black Nova and Lê's attitudes) to my questions tells me the exact type of Duelist you are. Your responses tell me you would fight against my decks and kick and scream after I use them to win. You would be questioning the judges after I show you the official rulings and then quit when you realize that I have my "ducks-in-a-row". THIS is me getting my ducks-in-a-row. Understanding situations like this enables Decks like the "Morphing Jar #2" OTKs using Trap Monsters in the "All-Out Attacks OTKs". Or the "Colossal Fighter OTK". Another Deck I am SURE you would hate is my "+/- Fairy" deck. It uses the Flint Lock Loop to make an "Agent" OTK style Deck.

It is also funny that you try to justify yourself with something that doesn't help. "Number 101: Silent Honor ARK" (and its Number C version) do NOT use the same situation. That monster becomes a Material and therefore is "no longer on the field". That is a clear difference to just being on the field with a status change. It gets even better when you still use terms that are wrong. The Materials are "sent to the Graveyard", not "xyz material is discarded when..."

In another point, I thank Gadjiltron for their answer as it is precisely attuned to what I was looking for. Is that an official wording? (an Xyz Monster on the field) Or just how it has been followed so far? Either way, it matches the answers above and is also supported better than most the above comments. Thank you. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 04:31, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

That's not an official wording, I'm just summarizing their points in a way that you'd find easier to understand and accept. If the Xyz Monster gets turned into an Equip Card, it is treated as an Equip Spell and is no longer a monster, thereby failing the "Xyz Monster" part of my condition and losing its Materials. Likewise, when it leaves the field or is used as Material, it fails the "on the field" part and the Materials are lost. If you want to physically test this, try absorbing an Xyz Monster with Relinquished or Destiny HERO - Plasma, and see what happens. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 04:54, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

That is basically what I thought would happen. Thank you for the help. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 06:08, February 14, 2014 (UTC)