Forum:Institute for Proper Deck Building Skills

General Information/Mission Statement

I, Dark Ace SP, have retired from being a deckbuilder for Decks for Free! and this new forum page is something I've come to the conclusion that we need. The purpose of this forum page is 2 pronged, while I like making decks for people, I noticed that people just can't seem to build a proper deck, and that's why they would ask us to do it. While I love the service Lappyzard is now continuing, I think it's also important to help people actually get better at deckbuilding, rather than just being given a deck. Proper deckbuilding is a skill that every duelist should have.

The second reason for this page is that some people won't want to work at getting better and will just continue to use Decks for Free!, the only problem is all the deckbuilders will eventually have to leave for one reason or another, so Decks for Free! will always need more staff. So, if this forum page can help you get better at making real decks that work, then you would feel more comfortable making decks for others, and you might apply to become a Decks for Free! staff member.

This page is mostly like the deck help forum, the only difference is that I will reply and give you my thoughts, and won't let your request go unanswered. I've had the experience to make decks for almost 2 years for deck ideas that were odd or really just out of the mainstream, so what I tell you is based on that. Take in mind, that doesn't mean all duelists are bad or horrible deckbuilders, but some people do feel like they need help to get better, and that's what this page is for, to help you on a personal level, with someone who has gained experience from working with talented people, and would like to pass that on.

I will not make decks on request, only help you make your idea come to life.

General Procedure

Much like how Decks for Free! works, I'd like the people who want help to make a new section, then I can start to help you get better at deckbuilding. Please make a new request by using this link. Just remember to have a user account and know how to sign your posts. You should also know how to use the Template:Decklist. You should know that you will make the deck, and I will give you feedback, but I hope you can get better, that's the end goal.

How would I help you get better?

I would help you make a deck of your own choosing, but I'd only give you my own thoughts and what I think can be changed to give the deck as much focus as possible. I won't make your deck for you, but I will try to guide you to a deck that you think works for you. I'll only take a few people at a time, and I do want to help people who want a hands on experience at getting better.

---Dark Ace SP (Talk)

General Deckbuilding Guidelines

• Deck Building 101

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Requests

Syuta Hayami

The next deck i've decided to build was a syut hayami deck.

The deck's focus is to summon lv 6 machines in order to summon force focus. Again, I need help on the consistency of the main deck, then I'll move onto the extra Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 23:45, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm...not sure if Gears are the best way to go about this. Let me think on it. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:28, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Do you want to use the Machines, or would you rather use something like Gagaga Spam, Wind-Ups, or even Monarchs to make the Level 6 material thing easier, heck even Hieratic could work, although Hieratic has some small issues with consistency. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 15:07, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

hmmm, maybe a good Chaos Stun deck, but I would also want cameraclops in there as well if thats the case. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 18:11, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

That could work, not sure about Cameraclops, but hey it's an alright tech card. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 01:45, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

could you give me ur own standard build for Chaos Stun, cuz I'm not THAT familiar withit, only just faced it and got beaten badly Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 20:15, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

I don't really have a standard build. I usually just build the deck around Thunder King Rai-Oh, Doomcaliber Knight, and 3 Dimensional Alchemist. After that I just make picks based on utility in the metagame. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 12:34, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

still, what are the best lv 6's to use in this chaos stun deck? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 18:14, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Here's my deck:

Basically it focuses around Light and Dark LV 6's to summon force focus. I also couldn't help but to add a few machines. Once again, I ned u to help with the consistency of the deck, before i move on to Extra. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 20:13, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Let's take care of the monster line-up first, shall we? So my first question is why use Blowback Dragon over a Caius? Caius is more or less guaranteed to be a 1-1 or even 2-1 card. So I would definitely run 3 Caius over 2 Caius and Blowback. Blow back is just not consistent, 2/3 chance of heads might seem great, but hey it's too chance in a deck that you say lacks consistency. I would also use Dark Ruler Ha Des over Ancient Gear Beast, Ha Des has a higher ATK and basically has the same effect as Chimera. But after that, I'd drop Prime Material and Kycoo for 2 Dimensional Alchemist to help speed the deck up, as well as provide another Level 4 beater. Also, if there a reason Tour Guide and Sangan are missing from the deck? They're DARK and they make quick Rank 3 monsters. You should definitely work with the monster line-up more to lower your dead draws, but also increase your chances of having them in hand, so maybe think about Upstart Goblin or Reckless Greed.

As for your spells, I think you should replace 1 Night Bean with either a Forbidden Lance or another MST, yes Beam is useful to get rid of set cards, but it isn't really needed at 2. Burden of the Mighty won't really do much, besides making it easier for Cameraclops to run over things. The traps look fine.

Overall I'd say that the monster and spell line-ups need to be reworked to create an actual engine to search for the cards you need, or for a way to go through your deck faster, I'd seriously recommend 3 Dimensional Alchemist for this. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 21:02, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

made the changes. Howzat? I also put in the Extra, too. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 22:26, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Looks better, but do you REALLY need Cameraclops? You'd be better off adding in a 3rd Doom or a 2nd Warrior Lady, as Camera serves a very unique role, and even then it sends the monster to the grave to be possibly revived. The banished zone is a little more permanent. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:57, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

ur right. I replaced it with warrior lady. I also made a side for my fleur and syuta deck:

any suggestions there? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 23:19, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Looks fine, my only suggestion is to not make generic sides for every deck. Try to customize the side deck to the deck your playing.

I cant really maintain advantages with this deck. My monsters usually gets easily destroyed by battle and card effects, cuz of the lack of variety in my traps. What other traps should i include? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 13:36, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

edited the above list's trap line, and took out a caius, alchemist, and rai-oh as well to make room for more traps. I also modified the side too. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 13:48, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

You could drop Dark Ruler Ha Des for more room, or just replace him with a Caius. You can also drop Dark Bribe and Safe Zone for 2 Compulsory Evacuation Device, this card murders extra deck monsters on a whole other level. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 20:27, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

K, i replaced ha des with caius, and bribe and safe zone for CEV. Anything else to maintain advantage? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 18:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Looks good. Play with it and tell me how you like it. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 19:42, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

I still cant win. I always draw a lot of monsters, but only a few traps, meaning i am unable to maintain consistency for even 1 turn. maybe u can try my eck out and tell me what it exactly needs. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 18:47, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Let me play with it over the next weekend, I might not have enough time this week. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 01:55, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

DN Image Link. I organize my extra deck by Synchros then Xyz from lowest Rank to highest. You can make changes to the extra deck if you want, I never actually used it. The deck isn't perfect and won't give you a fast or quick win, but you can win slowly over a few turns. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 00:09, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

Getting ready for YCS Tacoma! Hieratic Hanzo?!?

The Title kind of explains everything. I would like to improve my deck to the point where it can top the whole Event but would also retain my signature; the use of synchros and tuners in the deck. Mainly my favorite Synchro monster of all time; Exploder Dragonwing.

Here is the Deck I have assembled so far (if someone could help me learn how to insert a table on wikia that would be nice):

Monsters: x1 Flamvell Guard x1 Luster Dragon #2 x1 Wattail Dragon x2 Battle Fader x1 BLS-Envoy of the Beginning x1 Dark Dust Spirit x2 Effect Veiler x1 Gorz x2 Hieratic Su x3 Hieratic Tefnuit x1 Koa'Ki Meru Drago x2 Lightpulsar Dragon x1 Maxx "C" x3 Hanzo x1 Tragoedia

Spells: x1 Allure of Darkness x1 Dark Hole x1 Enemy Controller x1 Foolish Burial x1 Forbidden Lance x1 Heavy Storm x2 Hieratic seal of Convocation x1 Magical Mallet x1 Monster Reborn x3 MST x1 POD

Traps: x3 Compulsory Evacuation Device x2 Super Transformation

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Extra: x1 Catastor x1 Black Rose x1 Exploder Dragonwing x1 Avenging Knight Parshath x1 Stardust x1 Thought Ruler Archfiend x1 Mist Wurm x3 Thunder Charger x3 Atum x1 Exa-Beetle x1 Photon Strike Bounzer

Side: x1 Jinzo x1 Chain Dissapearence x1 Super Poly x1 E HERO the shinning x1 E HERO Escurido x1 E HERO Great Tornado x1 Maxx "C" x2 Thunder King Rai-oh x2 Doomcalibur Knight x1 Koa'ki Meru Drago x2 Shadow Imprisoning Mirror x2 Dimensional Prison

By the way, thanks for link AceSP! Needless to say, I am getting ready for YCS Tacoma and im looking for more opinions on the deck and possible changes I can make to it. I would like to keep Koa'ki Meru Drago in because it stops many decks and it also stops annoyences like Gorz, Trag, etc. I would also like to keep Exploder Dragonwing because it gets around alot of threats such as Light monsters, stall monsters, zenmains, etc. Another one of my signature cards is Dark Dust Spirit, being a Lightning Vortex with no cost and is the perfect canidate to make Beetle or Bounzer. What are your thoughts on this?FlameLordD19 (talk • contribs) 21:00, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Use a Template:Decklist. The example and instructions are pretty straight forward. Also, since this is a deck you want to take to a YCS, then you may want to post it up on the main Deck Help Forum, instead of this sticky thread in the Deck help forum. A link should be near the top of the page or go see the Forum:Index to see all of our forums in 1 place. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 01:12, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

ThanksFlameLordD19 (talk • contribs) 01:58, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Shark Attack

I'm now tryin to build a Ryoga-based deck Here are the cards I'm gonna use:

Cards I'm Usin

Monster Cards Big Jaws (good one-time beatsick for gravity bind or level limit, other than that target for Leviair or Ammo for aeroshark) Friller Rabca (Target for Leviair, ammo for aero shark, helps Rank 3 Xyztrips make up for low ATK) Shark Stickers (Easy Rank 3 xyz) Hammer Shark (another Rank 3 summonner) Tripod Fish (can be used for both Rank 3's and 4's) Spear Shark (key card in summoning of Shark Drake Two-Head Shark (good if u dont have alot of lv 3's) Xyz Remora (incredible card when swarming with xyzs) Extra Number 17: Leviathan Dragon (powerful generic Xyz) Submersible Carrier Aero Shark (makes use of semi-common banishing the deck would have, primarily fits well with friller) Black Ray Lancer (kills monsters like utopia and zenmaines) Number 32: Shark Drake (Powerful beatstick and quick LP depleter) Spell Cards Surface (Xyz support) Level Limit - Area B (works well with focus on level 3 and xyzs) Trap Cards Fish Rain (works well with big jaws and possibly other Generation Fish) Bubble Bringer (works well with Tripod Fish, otherwise just another rank 3 support and stall card) Gravity Bind (and stronger stall effect than bringer, but no WATER or xyz support)

Problem is, other that the described cards, I have no idea what support cards to include. Can u help? P.S. Im buildin ur stun deck right now Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 21:21, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

There were also a couple of Sharks in Abyss Rising and Cosmo Blazer. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 01:54, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

added sharks from Blazar. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 02:16, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Personally, here are the cards I found focus on: Monsters:

• 3 Big Jaws - Pure Beater and a target for Bringer later
• 2-3 Friller Rabca - Might as well block and create plays later with Leviair the Sea Dragon
• 1-2 Shark Stickers - Acts like a T.G. Warwolf, without the deck thinning. Which begs the question why not just use T.G. Warwolf and 1 T.G. Striker?
• 3 Spear Shark - Seems worth it.
• 0-1 Xyz Remora - How many times are you really going to detach materials from monsters you haven't really used? The only good target is Gem-Knight Pearl.
• 0-1 Tripod Fish not sure how this thing is needed when we have Spear Shark and Hammer Shark.
• 1-2 Hammer Shark - Not a bad effect, and it gives us another beater.
• 1-2 Two-Head Shark
• 2 Tour Guide From the Underworld - Quick Leviar...
• 1 Sangan - Search if needed.
• 2 Lost Blue Breaker? - A walking MST...

Spells:

• 1-2 Surface - Outclassed by Call of the Haunted in some cases.

Traps:

• 2-3 Bubble Bringer - Kinda worth the setup needed, you can even use something like Skreech for quicker grave-setup.
• 2-3 Call of the Haunted - You'll need the monsters on the board for crazy stuff.

---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:08, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Here's the deck:

Unfortunately I havent bin winning at all with it. Could u test this deck out and come back with an improved version? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 16:33, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

This is my 1st draft if you want a look: Deck Image. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:54, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

What do you think of that, and are there things you don't like? We could also try something with Banished Fish, or at least the core engine of it? ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:35, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Banish fish seems fine. But y use night assailant? I mean i dont see a way to send him from hand to grave. Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 15:25, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Night Assailant is a Tour Guide target, plus his effect has 2 parts, 1 part is for adding another flip effect monster to hand and the other part is a Flip effect that destroys a monster on the field. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 21:45, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Just so you know, when I try stuff like this, I go through a few versions and see where it leads.

Warning! Sharks in the water!

Monster Cards 22 3 Genex Undine 2 Genex Controller 3 Deep Sea Diva 1 Airorca 2 Atlantean Attack Squad 3 Shark Stickers 3 Big Jaws 2 Tour Guide From the Underworld 1 Sangan 2 Tragoedia Extra Deck - 15 Generic Rank 2 and 3 monsters Generic Level 5, 6, and 7 synchros Spell Cards 12 1 Allure of Darkness 1 Dark Hole 1 Heavy Storm 1 Monster Reborn 1 Mind Control 1 Foolish Burial 2 Surface 2 Salvage 2 MST Trap Cards 7 2 Bubble Bringer 3 Spiritual Water Art - Aoi 2 Torrential Tribute

What do you think of this? I haven't had time to play with it yet, but the basic idea is to get advantage off of Unidine and use that Genex Controller for something, either a Rank 3 summon, a Level 6 Synchro, or even Allure of Darkness fodder, whatever works. Unidine also helps to fuel up your graveyard for Bubble Bringer, although that's a long term course of action. If you feel the deck isn't what you really wanted tell me, although the Sharks just don't have that many great cards, maybe something more central around Spear Shark, but that's probably it. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 19:24, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

could to tweak it a little in order for it to be able summon shark drake? Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 12:39, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

The only way would be to add in a few Spear Shark, so he can bump up other fish to 4. The only way I see that happening is if you drop both MST. Truthfully, people are moving to smaller trap line-ups, so you could side in MST as needed for games 2 and 3. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 15:27, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Could u try to make the deck more central around Shark Drake and other Rank 4's, Cuz i keep on losin cuz of the rank 3's usual low ATK Guardmaster (talk • contribs) 18:08, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

I'll think some more about this, but you have to realize that the Sharks just aren't really good, and are probably better in generic Fish or Water decks. But give me more time, as I'm busy with real world stuff. -Dark Ace SP (Talk) 19:06, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

I'll help you on my talk page or something. But have you ever thought about something other than Sharks? If you really want Drake, your better off with something that can consistently get 3 Level 4 monsters on the board like Noble Rabbit. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 19:09, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Leontaurus in a deck?

Now that Cosmo Blazer is out, I'm wanting to reignite my decision to make a Beast/Beast-Warrior Toolbox deck. Thing is, I want to try and use Leontaurus in this deck, and the only deck I can think of that can properly utilize it would be a Rat Toolbox. Since I'm not sure how to do that, I'd like to ask for your help on this. What is the basis of a "Rat Toolbox", and which cards would you suggest I try out for it? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 17:26, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Use Giant Rat to go into Card Trooper, Exiled Force, Exploder Dragon, etc. It's basically designed to summon monsters with good effects for any situation. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 01:49, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Although I can't see why you can't use it as a straight up beater, he's going to have 2000 ATK most of the time when you battle. The only competitive deck to use Normals is Dino Rabbit and Noble Rabbit decks. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 01:51, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Giant Rat Toolbox seems to be the best place for him; he's overshadowed normally by cards like Gene-Warped Warwolf and the Koa'ki Meiru Beast-Warriors, and now Heraldic Beast Leo. At least with Rat, you can summon it out quicker than those others when you need the beatsticking.

So far, out of the most useful monsters I can find for Rat, I've chosen Leontaurus, Heraldic Beast Basilisk (for taking out really tough monsters), Wind-Up Rabbit, Shiba-Warrior Taro/Cat's Ear Tribe, and D.D. Crazy Beast. Anything else I should look at, in your opinion?Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 02:02, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Nothing? So, have you abandoned this deck, then? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 19:24, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't on for a few days. Relax. I'd also consider Card Trooper, the fact that he can thin out your deck is definetly something to think about, plus that draw at the end is probably worth it. Also, don't forget Neo-Spacian Grand Mole. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:28, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

I might as well make a traditional Rat Toolbox, in that case. C'mon, there has to be a way of making a decent all-Beast/Beast-Warrior Toolbox deck, with the new cards that came out. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 16:35, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well...I thought of a deck idea this morning to use Terror Fang Wolf, Dire Wolf, and it doesn't really use Beast-Warriors, but more Winged Beasts. Seeing as Mist Valley Falcon, Reborn Tengu, and Sacred Crane are all target's for his effect, oh and we can't forget Blackwing - Zephyros the Elite. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 00:06, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Not seeing where you're going with this, honestly; Reborn Tengu I can see working with Dire Wolf, but Sacred Crane and Falcon? Falcon can't use its effect to save it from being destroyed by Dire Wolf, while still pulling off its other destruction effect, and Sacred Crane... yeah, I've got no idea what you're planning with this, and honestly, it doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in, anyway, sorry.

Looking at my options, as limited as they are, I really wish Akz, the Pumer wasn't a Special Summon Only monster. He would've been king in an all-beast Rat Toolbox. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 01:54, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

It was a sacred crane deck fueled by Summoner Monk, so you can +1 off of Crane, then use it for a quick Rank 4, and Falcon is to reuse Call of the Haunted and Fiendish Chain. But truthfully, Beast-Warriors are probably just better mixed with some good solid Level 4 Beasts as well. There's just not enough to go on, unless you want to do an Archetype. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:29, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Just wanting a generic Beast/Beast-Warrior Rat Toolbox with Leontaurus as the "ace" beater. Dire Wolf and maybe Soko will likely be the boss monsters, but I definitely want to try and use Leontaurus in some kind of deck, and as I said, his base 1500 ATK seems to scream "Rat Toolbox" to me. Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 03:17, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well, maybe you could include a few of the Psychic monsters to give it a bit more kick? Serene Psychic Witch and Esper Girl work together. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 16:16, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm a Beast player; their style of play just mesh with how I play the game. I've tried other styles of gameplay, other types and archetypes, and generic Beasts/Beast_Warriors just feels "right" to me, for some reason. So, while I appreciate the suggestion, I'd appreciate it if you'd keep to the generic Beast/Beast-Warriors when helping me with this deck, thanks. On that note, I've been going over what the traditional Rat Toolbox usually have, and Nimble Momonga seems to pop up a lot. How would you rate this choice? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 16:24, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

I think trying to make a generic Beast/Beast-Warrior from Rat Toolbox is too much work, there just aren't enough good beast or beast-warriors out there. Personally, here's what I would do for a basic Rat lineup:

• 3 Giant Rat
• 3 Leontaurus
• 2 Wind-Up Rabbit
• 2 Exploder Dragon

After that, I'd go ahead and add in stuff like King Tiger Wanghu, Ape Fighter, and Beast King Barbaros.

It's sad, but there just aren't enough good Beast or Beast-Warriors to toolbox with Rat. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 19:05, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Eh, like I said, Exploder Dragon can be replaced with Heraldic Beast Basilisk, for a pure Beast/Beast-Warrior deck; they do pretty much the same thing, save for the damage negation upon attacking that Exploder does, so it wouldn't be that great of a loss. So, I guess right now, the set is thus:

• 3 Giant Rat
• 3 Leontaurus
• 2 Wind-up Rabbit
• 2-3 Heraldic Beast Basilisk

You mentioned Cat's Ear Tribe over Shiba-Warrior Taro, before; I'm wondering if you're still sticking to that or not. I'm also wondering if I should put in Disorderly March, to take advantage of the fact that I'm using a mixed Beast/Beast-Warrior deck. Your thoughts? Vorpal Storm Pony (talk • contribs) 16:26, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

Disorderly March is just perfect, use it if you don't mind not using Spells for the rest of the turn. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:41, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Cat's Ear Tribe can work as a single card if you want it, but I think a Dimensional Prison would be better. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 22:41, November 20, 2012 (UTC)