Forum:Frustrating (sadly, not for opponent) Venom Deck

This deck is definitely not in good shape, even after checking the relevant deck guide (kudos to Gadjiltron). I've basically been beaten to pulp even by slower decks... The problem is summoning my trump card, because like all gods around the world, she hardly ever listens to my pleas (and shows up whenever we DON'T need her, hence the use of 'Housekeeping' to sweep her under the carpet). My own dueling incompetence is blamed. Could I please have an analysis on this deck's weaknesses (apart from the fact it's incessantly slow and requires a lot of luck), and I'll start from there. Thankyou! Chromace (talk • contribs) 07:42, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, yes, and I've realised how awfully reliant I am on 'Vennominaga' and her lesser form. Although, I don't know of a Venom deck that isn't... Chromace (talk • contribs) 07:46, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing that up, I didn't notice. Chromace (talk • contribs) 00:51, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe I was too rude? Could I please have some suggestions on how to further improve this deck? Thankyou! Chromace (talk • contribs) 06:09, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Ace's Thoughts

I think you can drop the Damage Condenser and just use 3 Damage = Reptile. I don't see a point to Field Barrier or Attack Pheromones, I think they just waste space. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 15:09, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Other thoughts

You weren't rude by any stretch of the imagination. I am just not familiar enough with the archetype to offer a lot of advice. I did find a Venom deck in the Decks for Free! Galleries that might spark some changes. Here is the link: Forum:Decks for Free!/Archetype_Gallery_T-X#Venom. It looks like you could benefit from Terraforming and Limit Reverse. ---Kungfu-mama (Talk) 15:49, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Same here, I don't have too much experience building them. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 03:41, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Chromace's Responses

Fair enough. Any advice is great! Alright then...for now I'll just do this.

Replaced 'Pheromones' and 'Barrier' with 'Solidarity' (if I'm going to take up space, I'm going to put it to better use. This should fix problems with survivability). For now, I'll be testing it a little. Thanks for continuous support! Chromace (talk • contribs) 09:54, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not done yet! Okay...I've replaced 'Viper's Rebirth' with 'Limit Reverse' due to its higher versatility (that is, it can also function as a stand alone, as well as a way to summon 'Vennominon'...says myself, who realised this only after I was left with 'Rebirth' in the hand...one hit wonders don't do much good). Well then...back to testing... Chromace (talk • contribs) 07:42, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Could I please have some suggestions as well? Thanks! Chromace (talk • contribs) 08:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

The only things I could come up with (after research) is perhaps replacing Oshaleon with Worm Linx to help with drawing power. Seems like it might work better than Good Goblin Housekeeping. Add a Swords of Revealing Light or two, and maybe a Pot of Duality or two. You can also think about working in Tyrant Neptune - works well if Vennominon is in the grave. Other than that, the only way to make this faster is to rework this to include Vanilla reptiles and a pair of Rescue Rabbits,. That way, you have XYZ summoning to cover you until you get Vennominon out. ---Kungfu-mama (Talk) 15:39, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'm thinking more of Alien Grey than 'Worm Linx', since it's able to draw a card for sure (in that way, I'm lucky that I have a card database on my DS. However, this means I know hardly anything about newer cards. XYZs are quite new to me, so I'll be running blind in this area). SoRL sounds good. It'd work well in conjunction with 'Venom Swamp'. I'm not sure about running Rescue Rabbits, since it would mean the loss of the support of 'Solidarity'. About Neptune, I'm not sure what I'd replace to make some room for it (apart from Evil Dragon Ananta my other alternative attacker).

I have not built this deck yet because I have never owned the Deity, but I know for the most part, this deck requires (almost, if not exclusively) reptile type monsters. Still, my first thought is to main deck 2 "Card Trooper" and/or "Armageddon Knight" (unless you choose to use "Solidarity") for the purpose of filling the grave with reptiles (for Deity's attk) and to send the Deity or your king to the grave. This sets you up to chain a "Limit Reverse"/"Call of the Haunted" when the opponent activates a card such as "Mystical Space Typhoon", which in turn would destroy the s-summoned King and allow for the activation of "Rise of the Snake Deity" following your King's destruction. Perhaps consider including "Foolish Burial", as another means to send your King to the grave and create a similar set up for rise of the Deity. The addition of these cards would be to supplement your current spells like "Snake Rain", and not necessarily a substitute, since "Snake Rain" is likely of paramount importance to the Deity. "Card Trooper" also gives you a draw when destroyed and sent to your grave (from your side of the field) Interestingly, during the endphase, if you control a "Card Trooper", "Venom Swamp" will destroy it, as it's attack will have reverted to it's original 400 stat, forcing you to draw a card. Also, since the Diety and your King have both 0 attk & def, "Dark Eruption" or "Recurring Nightmare" can retrieve them from your grave.

167.137.1.16 (talk) 20:16, June 26, 2013 (UTC)N Kram167.137.1.16 (talk) 20:16, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Who would want Vennominon in your hand, anyway? If you want Dark Eruption for the simple sake of avoiding 'naga from getting milled (since Rise does not Special Summon 'naga from your Grave), just put one. But you probably won't need that. 3 Snake Rains should already do the job efficiently enough, letting you pick and mill a great number of Reptiles without resorting to chance by the usual self-milling. You might also just stick to one 'naga and 3 Vennominons instead, since all it takes is one 'naga to set you on the path to winning. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 01:18, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll do that.

Okay, here's my updated deck (long time coming I know). Most changes in bold.

'Oshaleon' is removed and replaced with 'Grey' (as Gadjiltron said, 'Who would want Vennominon in your hand, anyway?' I could only get said monster, 'Naga' and 'Cobra' with Leon. Thanks for the suggestion KFM!). To be honest, the reason I had two 'Vennominaga' was because it gave me a justifiable reason to use two 'Rise' (now it's more of an insurance thing with only one Deity). Final major change, replacing 'Viper's Rebirth' with 'Limit Reverse' (see earlier posts for reasons).

I'm wondering, because KFM brought this up...are there any XYZs that could support this deck? This is one field where I am, quite frankly, clueless about (well, I get the overlaying concept, but actual monsters? Nope. Well, apart from 'Utopia' but I don't think that'll help me). Advice/help is welcomed and thanked!

Oh yes, just wondering, what are the current chances of getting out Vennominaga (Partly rhetorical. But if someone can answer this, it'd be a step towards improving getting out this goddess)? Once again, I'm grateful for the help. Chromace (talk • contribs) 11:18, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

King of the Feral Imps and Gagagigo the Risen are two XYZ that would work. ---Kungfu-mama (Talk) 17:16, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

BTW, if you go the Rescue Rabbit route, think about using Gagagigo as your vanilla monster. Alien Ammonite would help you recycle Alien Grey and provide you with some synchro summoning power too. ---Kungfu-mama (Talk) 18:57, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

I'll definitely try it out, but this is purely theoretical since my DS doesn't have XYZs. It sounds fun.

Got rid of SoRL and a 'Damage=Reptile' for 'Gagagigo'. Replaced 'Naga' with 'Rescue Rabbit'. Thanks for the idea!

Alright...now I'll go back to testing my Venom Deck... Chromace (talk • contribs) 11:55, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

You could also try this out on Dueling Network. It's free to join. ---Kungfu-mama (Talk) 14:51, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

DN? Yes, I do have that, and it is quite convenient...but many of the players are...inexperienced, to say the least (a normal summoned LV5? Really...) anyway, apart from that, it is quite useful for deck testing. Would you know the difficulty/experience level at which most of these 'inexperienced plays' disappear? That would be great! Chromace (talk • contribs) 01:12, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Just depends really. In the past, the better players usually have experience levels over 1000. If you duel often in rated, the pool for rated games will eventually only allow you to duel experienced duelists. As for the noobish things, you can always try YGOPro, since all the rulings and stuff are automatic. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 17:18, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

One of the better things to do is usually just get good friends to join you in test games. If you ever need help, then do ask me to play, if I'm on. My DN username is the same as on here. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 17:19, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Who would want it in their hand you ask, Gadjiltron? Perhaps a person admiring the illustration? Obviously, "Recurring Nightmare" is not a card to be used in such a deck, EVER. Admittedly, my coupling "Recurring Nightmare" with "Dark Eruption" (the latter of which is a justifiable addition in the deck, though far from required) was a minor mental lapse, due to my failure to confirm WHERE the Diety can be s-summoned FROM, my assumption being it was only from the hand. (which it so happens she can be, so my point is nevertheless valid, provided you have a reason to discard the newly added King from hand EX:"Snake Rain") I did mention I have never owned the Deity, though this should have been confirmed before I posted anything unintentionally unhelpful, (if it was) for which I would be deeply sorry. (again, if) I included r-nightmare due to it returning both the Deity & King (and other 0 def darks) from the grave to hand. You (Gadjiltron) were quick to pounce on this minor error like a starving tigress eyeing a scrap of flesh. (to feed the cubs, no?)

Regarding "Card Trooper". I began my post with "my first thought..", referring to the inclusion of a c-trooper duo in a build of this type. This was merely a suggestion, and personally, I would not shy away from play testing with them.

If you (Gadjiltron) sense any disrespect from this post, I refer you to the breaks after the first paragraph, a suggestion that you yourself gave, which I have applied as I see fit. If I did not respect you, would I have done so? Here is some advice. In general, it is thoroughly unconstructive to be so quickly dismissive of others, even if ego speaks otherwise. Of course, as an individual, you may or may not apply this as you see fit. Lastly, please note that E-VEN RO-BOTS MAKE ERR-ORS.

How has the deck play-tested thus far?

N Kram (talk • contribs) 21:41, July 2, 2013 (UTC)N KramN Kram (talk • contribs) 21:41, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

To be honest...not very well (I was thinking of something harsher, but...), since I'm over reliant on the Deity, with basically no backups. To make things worse, her lesser form is not immune to returning back to the hand/deck (the fault goes to the Gishki archetype. And Watt beat me to pulp since Vennominon was the only card in my hand - Chimaera). I can kind of understand why people don't go for pure Venom Decks... Chromace (talk • contribs) 00:28, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

No offense taken, and no offense intended, N Kram. I felt like I merely evaluated your suggestions and put up other ones that would be better for doing the job. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 02:49, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

No offense taken, and no offense intended, N Kram. I felt like I merely evaluated your suggestions and put up other ones that would be better for doing the job

Good. However, your accepting my (admittedly mistaken) inclusion of "Recurring Nightmare" with "Dark Eruption" as an genuine suggestion is, in reality, incorrect, as I have made clear why it was mentioned in the post after the fact. (a minor mental lapse, if you recall) Also, I am interested to read (in detail, if you would) why you feel "Card Trooper" is so toxic to such a deck (other than the chance milling of an important card like ROTSD, which would be comfortably expendable, and in fact returnable to the deck per "The Transmigration Prophecy" or "Des Feral Imp"(itself a reptile))? If I had access to the DN, I would gladly play test what which would be my own build. Regarding "Dark Eruption", I can take or leave it as again, this was included with r-nightmare at a time I was unaware the Deity could be s-summoned from the deck.

N Kram (talk • contribs) 16:07, July 3, 2013 (UTC)N KramN Kram (talk • contribs) 16:07, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't exactly say that Card Trooper is bad for the Deck - I just implied that it's outclassed by Snake Rain. Snake Rain lets you pick out what you want in the Grave without running that risk of striking any important S/Ts (and 'naga, because Rise doesn't Summon from the Graveyard). In comparison, Card Trooper runs that risk of hitting what you don't want, but at least replaces itself at the end of the turn with a draw when it inevitably dies to Venom Swamp. For the job of filling the Graveyard with Reptiles, Snake Rain would be the better choice hands down, but if you want versatility in the form of a one-shot "floating" attacker, I suppose you can use Snake Rain and Card Trooper interchangeably. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 16:23, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I certainly do not disagree that, in terms of sending reptiles to the graveyard in a build such as this, "Snake Rain" is in a league by itself, forget outclassing. I personally would use both interchangebly. Your points are all valid.

N Kram (talk • contribs) 17:24, July 3, 2013 (UTC)N KramN Kram (talk • contribs) 17:24, July 3, 2013 (UTC)