Template talk:CardTable2

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This page is for discussing how to improve the page. For general discussion and comments, use the general discussion forum. To ask about rulings or how cards work, use the ruling queries forum. To get help with building a Deck, use the Deck help forum. Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.	Please try to Be polite Assume good faith Be welcoming

Optional parameters visibility

Currently the bit of this template that's visible on the template page doesn't show any of the optional parameters. Should we change it so that they're all visible here. We get a few reports of things looking weird. For example long titles having nowrapping or line breaking issues in the default Wikia skin as mentioned at Forum:Wiki Pages Look Odd?#Good new/Bad new. It would be handy if we could see all the parameters here and spot which ones need fixing, rather than wait for users to report them individually. -- Deltaneos (talk) 23:47, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. The only reason it doesn't currently is because I never bothered to make it do so when I was rewriting it. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 04:07, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Check translation links

The mobile skin doesn't load the sites' custom CSS/JS files, so sysop-show doesn't word there and everybody sees the "check translation" links. And the Google translate links redirect to http://translate.google.com/m/translate without having the words or language to be translated set up. However if you click the "classic" view at the bottom it will go to http://translate.google.com/#de%7Cen%7CDunkler+Magier for example and any further "check translation" links you click will automatically go to he regular Google translate. Is there anything that can be added to the url to force it to use the regular Google translate or is there any way of hiding sysop-show from the mobile skin? -- Deltaneos (talk) 16:48, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, clicking the links in my browser just takes me directly to the non-mobile version of Google Translate, and I don't have a mobile device of my own, so I can't properly test that bit for myself, but based on going directly to the mobile Google Translate page and trying to translate something, it doesn't look like it updates the URL like the non-mobile version does (I wasn't able to find anything relevant in the help pages either).

Unless there's a CSS file for the mobile skin we can customize (something like MediaWiki:Wikiamobile.css), that looks like a "no" (and it doesn't look like there's any such file, based on my poking around). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 18:11, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

You'd think I'd have at least tried it after you guessing that page. That is indeed the custom CSS page for the mobile skin. You can see it in use at w:c:runescape:MediaWiki:Wikiamobile.css for example. So, should we import the common CSS page there and move any styles we don't want appearing in the mobile skin form common to somewhere else or should we just copy over the desired styles from common to wikiamobile? -- Deltaneos (talk) 02:21, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

As a mobile skin, Wikiamobile is a different beast entirely from the Wikia or Monobook skins, so I don't think it'd be a good idea to just import the entirety of Common.css (along with everything else it imports), other then perhaps just to see what happens. Instead, we should probably look for stuff that needs styles on the mobile skin, and copy and tweak the necessary styles. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 03:09, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

Note to self

(or whichever admin gets here first =D ) Class 1:VGEx --> Class 1::VGEx --Dinoguy1000 (talk • contribs) as 72.251.162.61 (talk) 04:41, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

ZEXAL II

We need card appearance parameter for this series. --The Goblin 18:33, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Done, the parameter name is "anime_zx2". 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 19:17, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

WC4 Card Numbers

I'm getting back to my Yu-Gi-Oh! Video Gaming and I noticed that there isn't an option to add the video game numbers of cards from WC4.--Gostly Kyle (talk • contribs) 11:36, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Added. The parameter name is wc4number. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 12:56, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Localized Card Lores

Localized Properties for the card lores are missing (I would need for instance the German lore). Could they be defined in this template?

Aubera (talk • contribs) 13:07, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Hello Aubera, and sorry about the delay in getting back to you on this. I've been aware of this particular omission for quite some time. However, I'm rather leery of adding them at this point; this template already makes very heavy use of SMW, to the point that it doesn't take much to force Wikia to disable it here while their servers catch back up, and I'm afraid adding these properties at this point would be more than enough to force that, so I'd rather hold off on adding the properties. A new version of the card template is slowly being worked on, though, and definitely will feature a full complement of lore properties. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 18:52, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Pendulum Scale

Currently, documentation of a monster's Pendulum Scale is incorporated as part of the card's lore. I think it would be more logical to add the Pendulum Scale as a separate parameter. RedDrgn (talk • contribs) 17:50, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, and you'd be right. I've been dragging my feet about adding proper support for it and the spell effect that Pendulum Monsters have, mostly waiting to see if any more would be revealed and thus I might be able to get a better sense of them. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 19:09, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Rank-up and Rank-down relations

I think it would be neat if we could see the Rank-up and Rank-down relations between two cards, like you can see which Fusion Monster it can be used for. Support? Bump. Zaziuma (talk • contribs) 08:09, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for here. Are you wanting a parameter for the "intended" rank-ups/rank-downs, or all possible ones, or something else? I also have to be honest, I'm not that familiar with the mechanic, generally speaking, so I may not be the best person to review and implement the functionality. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 10:44, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Like with monsters that are Materials for Fusion Monsters, have the monster(s) it can Rank Up/Down to. For example, Number 96: Black Mist can Rank-up into Number C96: Black Storm, and Number C96: Black Stormed is Ranked-up from Number 96: Black Mist. Zaziuma (talk • contribs) 12:28, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

(Turkish names)

I wanted to add Turkish names of cards but I can't. I checked out the template and Turkish name segment is not existing. Can someone fix this? Thanks. --Quarkmaster (talk • contribs) 08:06, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

The Turkish name parameter already exists in the template. However, it will not be publicly displayed, since we only display languages that Konami has printed YGO cards in. Turkish is not one of them. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 08:32, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

Specifically, Turkish names can be entered using the parameter trname (CardTable2 also supports entering Turkish lores, via trlore, if you're interested in that as well). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 13:14, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

What is the purpose of that if card names and lores won't be visible in an article? –IRancher (talk) 09:52, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

All supported card names and lores are stored in Semantic MediaWiki properties, which allows them to be listed on other pages. In the case of Turkish names and lores, the properties are Property:Turkish name and Property:Turkish lore. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:20, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

Some issues and questions.

1. Useful categories are missing. Many unneeded categories for names, but missing categories for almost every other more or less important thing like "Spell", "Trap", "Monster", "Fusion Monster", Level, ATK/DEF, which video game a card occurs in and so on. Of course, categories are almost obsolete now with the power of semantics, but I feel them to be still important. Is there a possibility some of those get added?
2. Video game sets are arbitrarily ordered. They should be either ordered by release date or by system -> release date, imho.
3. Is it possible to create a template for video game sets similar to those for real life sets? The current setup looks a bit oldfashioned.
4. Should each card have a video game lore, even if it's identical to then normal english lore on the card?
5. What purpose do the card search categories have, and how should they be used, for example this one: "Monster/Spell/Trap categories"?

--Sotho Tal Ker (talk • contribs) 17:51, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Most of these are largely unsettled issues.

1. The "unneeded categories for names" (by which I assume you are referring to the "Card table transclusions using text" categories; correct me if I'm mistaken) are actually maintenance categories; most of them are intended to be used to help update parameter names in the near-ish future. I largely agree with you about categorizing according to various card categories, and to an extent, we did exactly that before we started using Semantic MediaWiki, but more recently when I've asked about it I haven't gotten much in the way of a response.
2. I'm going to address all the video game stuff here: the long-term plan is to gradually split out the video game versions of cards into their own articles which use their own card template based on {{Card table}}, this has already been done with DOR cards, for example, via {{DOR card}}. These pages are categorized by video game as appropriate, and include appropriate handling for video game sets and the like. In the nearer-term, the ordering of the video game information presented here (not just the sets) is something that's bothered me for some time, but never enough to do anything about it. And it is my view that, yes, a card's lore from a video game should be provided, even when identical to its English TCG lore, though again, this has been brought up with other editors, and my impression of the response was largely disinterest.
3. The card search categories are meant to allow categorizing and searching for cards on the basis of various properties related to their effects and a few other characteristics, though there is no "canonical" list of properties, and how they are meant to be divided between each category isn't terribly clear. I've never done much with them myself, though, and maybe other editors could provide a better answer.

I hope this covers most of your concerns; I'll be pointing others here in case any of them want to offer their own input as well, and in the meantime, if you still have questions, feel free to ask! 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 22:17, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

It has to be remembered that CT2 is a monolith from a simpler time, and much of the functionality has been shoe-horned in; we're addressing these concerns with the new card tables. I'm open to adding back in regular categories, but save that for when we move out the new card table. A special note about card search categories; that was my decision, a long time ago. They were based on the search categories found in video games, but the idea was ultimately expanded beyond what we found. They were designed to be used in semantic queries along with regular properties, like Type, Card Category and ATK. Now, due to how much strain SMW has been on Wikia's systems, this isn't a widely-published feature, but does provide solid ground for future improvement.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 22:29, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

If you plan to make changes to the video game related card stuff, it probably is a moot point to add this kind of information now, is it? --Sotho Tal Ker (talk • contribs) 11:12, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Not necessarily. While duplication of effort is a concern, certainly, it's a pretty minor one compared to being able to lay groundwork and start benefiting now from changes/improvements, instead of putting it all off to some unspecified future date when the new templates will finally be ready to go. So while, for example, the display of video game sets isn't something likely to be changed here, the order in which video game info is presented certainly is something I intend to look at sooner or later. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 08:30, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Well then I keep editing. :) Do you have any links to the "new table" stuff (discussions, preliminary drafts)? --Sotho Tal Ker (talk • contribs) 19:39, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Most of the discussion to date has taken place on Skype, unfortunately, but we do have several of the templates already finished and deployed; {{Card table templates}} should provide a reasonable overview of the templatescape here. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 08:19, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Video Game Parameters

I've been going in and adding information for the Video Games, especially the GB/C/A games and I've noticed a couple of missing parameters.

Dark Duel Stories is missing the Alignment, ATK, and DEF variables.

Also, GX Duel Academy has card numbers as well in the form of: #XXXX

Thanks for listening to the input.--Gostly Kyle (talk • contribs) 16:56, October 28, 2014 (UTC)

EDIT: I've also just noticed the same lack of Alignment, ATK, and DEF variables for Reshef of Destruction. Again, thanks for your time. --Gostly Kyle (talk • contribs) 17:04, October 28, 2014 (UTC)

I've added the DDS and GX1 parameters with the names dds_alignment, dds_atk, dds_def, and gx1_number (I saved just as or before you added the note about ROD, so I'll add those parameters in a second). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:06, October 28, 2014 (UTC)

And there's rod_alignment, rod_atk, and rod_def. Leave a message if you notice any other missing parameters! =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:09, October 28, 2014 (UTC)

No problems, I wasn't expecting such an almost instantaneous response. Will do, and thanks again.--Gostly Kyle (talk • contribs) 17:24, October 28, 2014 (UTC)

Well, to be honest, you just happened to catch me when I was online and not doing anything else at the moment. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:25, October 28, 2014 (UTC)

Anime/manga?

Where are the links to the anime/manga versions of a card? On the anime/manga version pages, there are (usually) links to the real card, but not the other way around, as far as I can tell. RedDrgn (talk • contribs) 07:10, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

They're beneath the table, above the archseries navboxes. The alternate versions navbox does blend in somewhat currently; it's a known problem but I don't know really how we're going to fix it in the long term. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 07:17, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Level/Rank string

I just found out that there are properties for "Level string" and "Rank string" in addition to the ATK/DEF string properties. Seeing as how the Anime card template uses these properties, I think they should be incorporated here too. RedDrgn (talk • contribs) 19:02, April 4, 2015 (UTC)

That was an oversight; fixed. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 23:58, April 4, 2015 (UTC)

DDS Name

Hi, I think there should be an addition of alternate names for the Dark Duel Stories cards, as there's many example of cards with different names than the TCG versions. -SlashMan (talk • contribs) 22:04, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry about the months-late response; I completely missed this message. I've added a dds_name parameter. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 10:27, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

No problem, thanks a lot. -SlashMan (talk • contribs) 20:24, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

Manga strip down

I think all the manga information on the pages using {{CardTable2}} is now covered by pages using {{Manga card}}.

ARC-V The Strongest Duelist Yuya!! has never had parameters on {{CardTable2}}, so it's already sorted.

I'm happy that it's been done for all the Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. I'm pretty sure it's been done for these series, but other people can confirm for:

• Yu-Gi-Oh! R
• Yu-Gi-Oh! GX
• Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's
• Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL
• Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V

D Team ZEXAL is different, as it uses OCG cards. Do we need to sort out something different for this or will we be leaving their appearances documented on {{CardTable2}} for now?

Can we have a bot strip out all of the manga parameters from Category:((CardTable2)) transclusions with manga parameters, except D Team appearances and then remove those parameters from this template? -- Deltaneos (talk) 23:17, October 20, 2015 (UTC)

To my knowledge, everything main-series manga is done. A few R cards may have slipped through, that gallery isn't done yet. Keeping meaning to finish that. The others galleries are done.

I talked with Dino about a separate parameter for D Team and thought we actually had one now, but its not been used much. Turns out the page in question is using {{Manga card}}. In any case, maybe we don't actually need a separate table for it, but they certainly do need separate pages if we're going to document them off of CT2.

Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V The Strongest Duelist Yuya!! also exists now and presents another problem - no monsters have effects, at all. Everything is a vanilla, some of them have Pendulum Scales, but no effects. The hope was a combined D Team/Duelist Yuya template would work, but then they went with the no effects thing, so no.

In my opinion, we should go with separate pages for both alternate mangas and be done with it. May as well get everything we can out of CT2.

And one final note {{Anime card}} has the same status - I believe everything is done being split out. For both cases, whatever isn't is simply not yet documented in the galleries - and everything known from episode and character articles card-wise should be in there. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:48, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

There are still over 200 pages listed in Category:((CardTable2)) transclusions to be converted or split to ((Manga card)), though thanks to SMW weirdness some of these may actually have been split already (though they'd all have to be checked either way, so it doesn't really matter other than potentially saving some work).

I started work on a "D Team card" template several months back but never got as far as actually saving anything. The work I did get through should still be in the tab I have open for it, if Chrome hasn't ditched the form contents yet; if you guys want, I can just see if it's recoverable and save what's there so we have something to start from. I will point out, though, that even if we just leave D Team cards using {{Manga card}}, it may require us to have separate (D Team card) pages for many of the cases where the card has appeared in another manga series, since D Team sticks to OCG effects and the other manga series don't necessarily.

As for the anime cards, as I pointed out to Cheesedude on Skype a while back, when I did the bot run to remove the anime parameters I'd forgotten about the anime equivalent to Category:((CardTable2)) transclusions to be converted or split to ((Manga card)), and there were therefore some pages that had their anime parameters removed without having a corresponding anime card. We've since found and fixed a handful of these, but there's probably plenty more lurking within Dinobot's thousands of edits. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 10:20, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

So are we adamant that D Team cards will be getting their own pages, as apposed to just using the OCG articles? The markup could be as simple as {{DT card|appears_in = 001, 008, 009}}, with images determined from the page name all the other data pulled from the OCG card article. Do you think it's worth excavating that old tab or starting fresh?

If we filter that category down to just the non-D Team series, that gives nine results (at the time of writing this):

• The illegal Egyptian Gods. Their manga pages list the legal counterparts as the main pages.
• Two monster ka. They should probably have character articles, rather than card tables.
• "Insect Larva". Its manga page lists "Insect Monster Token" as the main page.
• "Warp Vortex". Its manga pages uses {{Manga DDM card}}, rather than {{Manga card}}.
• "Barrel Dragon" and "Toon World". Probably some SMW cache issue.

While The Strongest Duelist Yuya!! is worth addressing, I think it's a separate effort. There isn't any work on that that's holding us back from stripping the manga parameters from CardTable2.

-- Deltaneos (talk) 20:43, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

We would still need to allow stuff to be overridden in the event a card that was featured in D Team later gets an OCG erratum. And recovering the tab would let me finally close it (and a few others probably), so that's mostly why I'm mentioning it. =D

Given SMW's nonsensical behavior currently (for example, it's currently showing anime pages on OCG-only, in spite of the query on that page having no possible method to return those pages), I'm hesitant to trust that filtering as comprehensive (though as far as that goes, the same could be said for the category itself, since it relies on a query).

If no one else has any objections, then, I'll get a bot run started to remove any leftover parameters from card pages and then strip them from here. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 21:09, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and recovered the tab and saved my work so far at {{D Team card}}; we can delete it later if we decide to go a different route, but in the meantime this gives us something to work off of or whatever. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 16:09, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

In that case, I think we're better off not having the D Team cards draw all that information from the main page. When a card gets an errata, we shouldn't have to check all the pages that inherit from it and put in an overwrite to stop them getting the update. Especially when we knew at the time of creating the D Team card page that it was going to have the details indefinitely. That's pretty much the opposite of why you'd ever put two things in sync.

Although we can still subst stuff like this to get the current OCG data on the initial page save.

-- Deltaneos (talk) 19:26, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

More storing options for "type3"

Could someone please change:

{{ #ifeq: {{{type3}}} | Tuner
    | [[Monster type Text::{{{type3}}} Monster| ]][[Monster type::{{{type3}}} Monster| ]]
  }}

to:

{{ #switch: {{{type3}}} | Tuner | Flip = [[Monster type Text::{{{type3}}} Monster| ]][[Monster type::{{{type3}}} Monster| ]]
                        | #default = 
  }}

please? This will make it store "Flip monster" in the "Monster type" and "Monster type Text" properties, just like it does with the type2 parameter. I would do it, but the page is protected. Thank you. I'm requesting this because we now have cards like "Performapal Momoncarpet". Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 10:01, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Done. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 18:29, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Dino!

But why throwing another #ifeq: instead of a #switch:? I do notice "Monster" and "monster", which is also something I don't understand, since Tuner monsters are called "Tuner monsters" (I didn't give it importance in my suggestion because I thought it was related to something else, but now I see it isn't (I think)). Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 18:45, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

It is possible to do a similar thing that allows "Odd-Eyes Rebellion Dragon" and "Nirvana High Paladin" to appear as ther Extra Deck monster type and as Pendulum Monsters at the same time? --XBrain130™「Ｘ（エックス）ブレーン１３０」 18:49, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Beca: I did a separate #ifeq because the code already there had a capitalized "Monster", while Flip monsters have the lowercase "monster"; I didn't bother to check whether that capitalization was actually correct, and converting the #ifeq to a #switch would have required additional #ifeqs anyways to support the "correct" capitalization (though since they're both lowercase, little is gained by having them separate now).

XBrain: I'm hesitant to try anything like that given the current state of the type-related code and properties; I'm going to have to rework the template to enforce a proper distinction between Type, monster type, ability, etc., which should be sufficient to fix Odd-Eyes and Nirvana (and cards like them), though it'll almost certainly result in a lot of queries not displaying some information or breaking completely until they're updated, which is one of the reasons I haven't already done this work. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 19:18, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

I had guess there was a problem like that. Well, what about Normal Pendulums then? --XBrain130™「Ｘ（エックス）ブレーン１３０」 19:21, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

What's the problem with them? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 19:43, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

They aren't recognized as Normal Monsters. --XBrain130™「Ｘ（エックス）ブレーン１３０」 19:48, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Aah. I think that's another thing that I would want to fix by that rewrite, rather than trying to fix it now. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 20:02, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

I see. But that's exactly why I questioned about the differentiation. Both of them should be treated the same way. Simply put: (Flip|Tuner) monster.

And don't get me wrong now, Dino, please, but I'd say the template could use some revamp. Don't get me wrong, the template is fantastic and one needs to have some big head to come up with this. But the property assignment regarding the card type is really confusing.

If I may suggest, conceptually, I'd go with something like:

• A big property to store the general card type: Monster Card, Spell Card, Trap Card. Basically, the big type of the card, like it's presented on cards like "Ordeal of a Traveler";
• A smaller property storing the "major" type of the monster: Fusion Monster, Ritual Monster, Synchro Monster, Xyz Monster, Pendulum Monster. Maybe even Token. If Spell/Trap, it could store its property: Field Spell Card, Ritual Spell Card, etc.. In this last case, it would default to Normal Spell/Trap Card.
• Then, a more particular property to store the particular type of the monster: Flip monster, Gemini monster, Tuner monster, etc.. Basically, the ones that do not have a capital "M" at "monster".
• Last but not least, a property to store if it's an Effect Monster. Basically, just reads a flag. If the flag exists, assigns Effect Monster. Otherwise, Normal Monster. If the previous property would store something like Union monster, for instance, that would immediately raise the flag, since all Union monsters are Effect Monsters.

I think this way it would be way more organized than having some at one place and similar ones at another. This way it would me more structured. Of course, I've exposed a very theoretical approach. There would be some niches in processing the output at the card pages (like not displaying "Flip" for old Flip monsters and such), but that's a different matter from the property assignment. And, of course, this suggestion only works for TCG/OCG cards. I don't know how possible and workable this is, but I leave the suggestion, Dino. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 20:48, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

I didn't think to mention this before, but even if I had been aware that Tuner monsters use a lowercase "monster", I still would have preferred to avoid using a #switch; in the past, interactions between #switch and SMW (in this very template, no less!) have been enough to nearly crash Wikia's entire network, so these days I try to avoid using them together if I can help it.

You're worried too much about offending me here, I think; being the principle maintainer and coder for this template for some time now, I can tell you from personal experience that it's really just a heaping pile of shite. =D (And keep in mind, this is after a complete rewrite I did of the template back in 2010-ish, with ongoing cleanup and optimization ever since then.) Ultimately, it is intended to be replaced with a completely new template in the same vein as {{Anime card}} and {{Manga card}}, but there's still a very long road ahead before we reach that point (and it's distinctly possible that over time, the template as it is now will be gradually morphed into that replacement template, with no abrupt, actual replacement ever happening, simply in the course of ongoing edits to it).

You have actually hit on very close to the system I'll be aiming for in the reworking, and one or two properties are already in place and being used, with the correct names, in e.g. the anime and manga card templates. For example, card types (Monster versus Spell versus Trap) are to be stored in Property:Card type, and the properties of non-monster cards (Equip, Counter, Continuous, etc.) are stored in Property:Property (don't blame me for that coincidence =D ). There is some question in my mind on whether Pendulum Monsters should be handled separately from the other monster types, and how exactly to handle Normal versus Effect Monsters, though; part of that will be trying to find a balance between a set of properties that accurately reflect how these things work and interact in the game (following what has been seen so far, exactly, would require at least four different properties: one for Normal versus Effect Monsters (where all monsters with "Effect" on their type line are stored as Effect, and all others as Normal), one for Pendulum Monsters, one for other monster types (possibly duplicating storing colored-frame Normal and Effect Monsters (that is, Normal Monsters with a yellow card background, and Effect Monsters with an orange one)), and one for abilities); and a set of properties that most editors can find intuitive and memorable enough to be able to use in queries without too much trouble (and certainly without having to look up which is the correct property every single time). Another concern is how the system will interact with how cards work in other media; as you pointed out, as laid out here, it's very specific to the OCG/TCG, though it does apply pretty well to (AFAIK) basically all of the anime starting with GX, and at least most of the more recent video games (of course, for media that depart significantly from the mechanics of the OCG/TCG, we generally will not even try to apply this system, instead doing whatever makes sense for them on basically a case-by-case basis). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 09:21, June 6, 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I wasn't aware the #switch was such a problematic function! I'll try to be careful with them in big templates, then.

Yes, I really don't want to sound the wrong way. I'm always sincere, if I have something to say, I say it. But I don't like to be rude, especially since lots of effort was put into this template.

Yeah, I am aware of {{Card table}} and User:Deltaneos/Sandbox/2. Are these the goal? I mean, I've read Card article redesign; maybe not all of it, but the discussion has ended long ago. Hence why I'm asking if what's on Deltaneos' sandbox is still the objective.

I think the property division you presented works fine. Pendulum Monsters may need to be differentiated (as opposed to what I suggested), since they can be Normal Monsters (unlike Ritual/Fusion/Syncho/Xyz) and since they can be Xyz/Synchro (and who knows what surprises the future holds).

Effect vs. Normal needs to be handled with extreme care. If it's an Effect Monster; then Effect Monster may and shall be assigned. If it's not an Effect Monster; then it needs to check if it's Ritual/Fusion/Syncho/Xyz. If it's one of those, do not assign Normal Monster; else, do assign. As you've probably may be starting to get my methods, I would just throw flags for that: One to check (raised) if it's an Effect Monster (triggered by several abilities). Another to check, in case the first one is off, if it's Ritual/Fusion/Syncho/Xyz. Thought this is making lots of comparisons, I don't know how the parser functions work for certain in terms of complexity, so I don't know if this would make it too expensive and you can probably dig a better approach. This to say that you can't just throw non-Effect Monsters into Normal Monsters, given not all non-Effect Monsters are Normal Monsters.

Concluding (I tend to extend myself, sorry...): The Spell/Traps are basically done. The names for the properties are the hard part (and I'm not good with names). Card Type and Property work fine, I'd say (I remember when I saw Property:Property for the first time, it was weird, but I think it works fine, and it's the correct name, after all). For Flip/Gemini/Union/Tuner/etc., I'd go with something like Monster ability or similar. For Ritual/Fusion/Syncho/Xyz, I'd go with... I don't know, really... Rulebooks sometimes say "kind of monster", but this is completely not official.

And that's basically it. Sorry, I guess I started divagating a bit too much. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 23:44, June 6, 2016 (UTC)

It's mostly a problem in very heavy templates that are widely used, I think; at least, we've never had issues with the combination in any template except this one. That being said, I prefer not to tempt fate, and so I do stay mindful of it whenever I'm working with SMW in a template.

They were certainly our original goal with the new card table system, though the system itself has evolved somewhat as we've worked at implementing it and learned lessons from seeing it in action. So at this point, Delt's sandbox and that discussion are probably more useful as a snapshot of our reasoning behind the redesign and our original intentions, rather than a reflection of current objectives. But, it's also important to note that the project is still ongoing, even though no one's really doing much more work on it at the moment. The long-term goal hasn't changed: to ultimately have separate templates (and articles) for whatever releases it makes sense for: the Capsule Monsters and Dungeon Dice Monsters games, for example, and all of the video games (though for them, in order to try and manage the sheer number of potential articles, we're going to try quite hard to cover multiple games in a single template where it makes sense - for example, most or all of the Tag Force games will be covered by a single {{TF card}}, and a bunch of the Duel Monsters games by a single {{DM card}}). And beyond that, at some point I intend to reimplement the whole thing as a module or set of modules, and have had in mind for some time a hopefully-more-accessible replacement system for the tabs currently used for multiple languages.

As I said, there are still things that need to be considered before stuff actually starts getting implemented. =)

Keep in mind that "card type" isn't capitalized; the property name is therefore "Card type".

"Ability" presents us with a bit of a problem, though: the term is a translation of the Japanese term "能力", and in that sense is an official term, but it hasn't actually been used in English in any official sources yet, which means if the concept ever does get named in English it may use a different term; if we've gone ahead with "Ability" and that happens, it'll be a pain to switch to the official term (but of course I may be too worried about that).

The term we'll probably go with for those is "Monster type"; that's what we've kind of already been leaning towards elsewhere. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 04:54, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

I see. I'll keep that in mind as well. Thanks for the info!

I remember when you guys started creating "(anime)" pages for the cards. I wasn't very confident on that move, but then I saw it couldn't have been better. Separating the info according to platform/media really helps keep things organized and prevents a page from being flooded with info that won'd be interesting for the user (for instance, if someone is looking for info about a card in the TCG, having lots of other info related with video games and such might be muddling). However, yes, condensing similar games into one place makes sense, of course. Having too much pages about one card only would also be confusing. So, not too sparse, not too condensed.

Oopsie, my bad on "Card type"; small distraction.

Hum, let's hope they release an English official term for "Ability", then. Maybe they will, since Pendulums can combine them and who knows if we are not going to get Gemini Pendulums, Union Pendulums and such. Tuner doesn't seem to be an ability, though. But it should fall into the same property as the abilities, right? Or not... Because the abilities make a monster be immediately and Effect Monster, while Tuner monsters don't. What about putting it in the same property as the Pendulums? Tuners, like Pendulums, can have an ability and be either Normal or Effect Monsters. I'm only now realizing this...

"Monster type"! Of course! *facepalms* Just laugh at me. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 11:55, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, you wouldn't be the only person who would have had reservations about the splitting; we've gotten complaints from others who don't understand our motivations behind splitting the card pages (in some cases, even after having us explain plainly and clearly what those motivations are), and at first I was pushing for a single-article approach myself (in fact, my work on that helped to illustrate exactly what the problems with the approach would be). And yeah, you've got it in one with that observation. =)

I would love for them to confirm the English term, but at this point I'm not holding my breath: the Japanese term is by now a couple of years old, and the context for its introduction as a result has had plenty of time to make its way to English, and yet we still don't have an official term. This wouldn't be the first time the wiki has gone ahead with unofficial or semi-official terminology, though ("archetype" is probably the most obvious example, but it's by no means the only one), so I guess I should stop dragging my feet already.

Hmm... I thought Tuner was an ability, but it's not actually listed as one on the Ability page. Though I don't know where the list there actually comes from. Even if it's not, though, treating it the same as we treat Pendulums wouldn't work, since Pendulums are a frame type (the frame of Pendulum Monsters is different from the frames of other cards) and Tuners aren't. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 08:58, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Apparently, the list on the Ability page comes straight from the Japanese rulebook, and also excludes Special Summon, which was introduced as a separate classification at the same time that Flip was (and, I think, around the same time the Ability classification/distinction was introduced as well). So I suppose that confirms that Tuner isn't an Ability, but it leaves us with the question of what it actually is (along with Special Summon). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 09:14, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Hum, I think you could go with "Ability". It comes directly from the Japanese. Of course the English term may differ, but, like you said, they had the opportunity to throw it already. How hard/complicated would be to then change it, in case an English official term comes out?

I thought that too as well, until last time we talked on this page. Basically, we have Fusion/Ritual/Synchro/Xyz. And these can't mix with themselves (at least for now), so they can be stored together without complications.

Then we have the Abilities. And they can't mix with themselves as well (again, at least for now), nor with the previous ones (though we can't put all of them in the same box).

Then we have Tuners. You can mix these with whatever you want (Tuner Xyz wouldn't make sense, but I guess it would be "possible" according to this criteria (I don't know if I'm making myself clear)).

Then Special Summon. I don't know how to treat these kind of monsters; it's OCG only. But treating them separately would be best, since you can combine them with Tuners. But you can't combine them neither with Ritual/etc. nor an Ability (I guess, because Spirit monsters can't be Special Summoned, but who knows if an Union/Special Summon could exist?), this is still young.

About Normal/Effect Monster, if it's not Effect Monster AND not Ritual/etc., then it's Normal Monster. Normal/Effect Monster could be stored in the same place.

Last but not least, Pendulums. Yeah, you can't put them in the same place as Tuners, because of that, you're right. They are like Tuners, they can mix with whatever. Maybe except with Special Summon (not necessarily, though). So they should be stored separately, I'd say.

This is way more complicated than one would think. My idea was to separate things as much as possible to avoid mixing different concepts (and the way they act). Tuner and Special Summon are some no-name things, at this point. And they are very versatile, but they aren't the same general thing (they don't work in the same way), hence why I suggest treating them separately. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 09:49, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Xyz Material for...

Would it be too much of a stretch adding the "Xyz Material" and "Xyz Material for" parameters for Xyz Monsters that can properly Xyz Summon themselves using a specific monster, like "Cyber Dragon Infinity" on top of "Cyber Dragon Nova"? --XBrain130™「Ｘ（エックス）ブレーン１３０」 15:35, June 19, 2016 (UTC)

Nova isn't a material requirement for summoning Infinity, it's just an option enabled via Infinity's effect, so if that effect is negated, Infinity can no longer be summoned using Nova. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 09:24, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

...uhm, isn't it a Summoning condition? It's written before the ①. And could be a non-activated effect from the Extra Deck be negated anyway? --XBrain130™「Ｘ（エックス）ブレーン１３０」 10:58, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

I think it's a Summon monster effect, so it can be negated. Nope, I guess you're right; it's written before the ①. —Last edited at 11:13, June 21, 2016 (UTC).

I don't find very relevant pointing that, XBrain. For Fusion Monsters it makes sense, because they require those specific materials, much like Xyz Monsters require 2/3/4/5 Level 1...12 monsters. Being Summoned through CyDra Nova is optional. If you want to point it out, the same would have to be done to Number 95 and the spiders that came out in PGL3, etc. and I, personally, wouldn't find it necessary. It might be convenient for someone looking for monsters that can Xyz Summon themselves in the top of others, but, in that case, you can search them at Xyz Evolution#'Generic' Xyz Evolution. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 11:11, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Default image width

Dino, I noticed you adjusted the template to stop stretching small images. However, it seems this happened. The default image (when image is empty) appears real sized, which is a bit big. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 19:16, June 29, 2016 (UTC)

Other pages bar at the bottom - need to add Tag Force in addition to Anime

I first noticed this with "Lazion, the Timelord" compared to "Lazion, the Timelord (anime)" and "Lazion, the Timelord (Tag Force)", but thanks to past and future Collectors Packs, there are now a bunch of cards that have different effects in all three of real life vs. anime vs. Tag Force, and apparently we're using separate pages for all of them now (no problem with this). But while the real card page and the anime page link to each other, and Tag Force links back to the real card page, there's no way to go from the real card/anime page to the Tag Force page. (In fact, I didn't know it existed and was about to append the TF6 effect to the real card page until I checked the edit history where someone noted it had been moved, rather than deleted.) Blueapple128 (talk • contribs) 15:00, April 7, 2017 (UTC)

I'm aware of the issue, and how to fix it, but it's not completely straightforward because of current behavior of the name and cardgame (and possibly one or two others) parameters. I've actually looked at making this change before, several months ago, and backed off because of that. The basic idea, though, is just to replace both name and cardgame with main from the newer card templates. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 15:19, April 7, 2017 (UTC)

French colon

According to French punctuation rules, a space is needed before and after a colon. So "Effet Pendule: " and "Effet de Monstre: " need to be "Effet Pendule : " and "Effet de Monstre : ".
That's a minor change, but still.--Yes42 (talk • contribs) 20:55, June 24, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. That's been updated now. -- Deltaneos (talk) 14:04, June 25, 2017 (UTC)

Link Monster color

I found that the Vietnamese Yugioh wiki has pretty nice header illustration for Link Monster as can be seen here. Should we use some similar design for Link Monster background to make it more distinctive from Ritual Monster? --Blackwings0605 (talk) 09:46, July 14, 2017 (UTC)

Looks good. I've added that background pattern to the header for CardTable2 and the newer card tables. -- Deltaneos (talk) 19:32, July 14, 2017 (UTC)

Added suggestion for Duel Links

In the "Lores and Sets" section of card page, shouldn't Duel Links be there also? Since it would be helpful to also specify the set where a certain card appears as well as what event/s or character(s) drop that card? Also, each card in Duel Links comes in one rarity, so it would simplify things. Dark Pride (talk • contribs) 07:04, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

The intention is to have a separate Template:Duel Links card rather than add more video game stuff here (the long-term intention is to split all the video game stuff off to separate card articles and templates). I can start the template (and will look at it in the next day or so), but I'm limited on how much I can do with it because there's a lot I don't know about how Duel Links works. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:30, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Basically, you don't really need a separate Duel Links card page (unlike Yu-Gi-Oh! BAM or Forbidden Memories) since the card page text for Duel Links and the OCG/TCG are exactly the same (except "Crystal Beast Emerald Tortoise", which just removed the first effect). For the kind of information needed for the template, it's just the "rarity" (Normal, Rare, Super Rare, Ultra Rare) and "how it can be obtained" (BOX, mini-BOX, Structure Deck, Event drop, Card trader, Duelist challenge, etc.) Dark Pride (talk • contribs) 13:43, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

There are other reasons to have dedicated pages for Duel Links cards; first and foremost, it's just a lot cleaner to have each page dedicated to a single medium or release. Even if a particular release doesn't have any unique properties such as effects, it also still gives us an extra element of freedom to customize the appearance of the page for that specific release (e.g. in the particular case of Duel Links, it would let us use the various Duel Links icons, such as for Attributes and Types, similar to how we did on BAM cards). As I hinted in my last comment, eventually all the video game stuff is going to be removed from this template anyways, as part of years-long cleanup and optimization effort. If you want more detail (probably way more than you'd ever care for), you can of course read the original proposal and later discussion where a lot of more technical reasons for splitting the information were presented, but just to warn you, both discussions are long, so if you intend to read them, you might want to grab a snack first. =D 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 16:22, 30 July 2018 (UTC)