Forum:Xyz, TCG, felt should be shared

"Kevin Tewart says: "Do not use OCG rules as a reference. As I've stated before in this group, Xyz Materials are on the field. Period. End of story. Yes, Tengu leaves the field when he's detached. As I said before."

That would mean: Tour Guide From the Underworld-Sangan, Reborn Tengu, Goblin Zombie and Elemental Hero Absolute Zero can activate their effects in the TCG. (Which is incredibly broken) On another note, PSZ and Quillbolt Hedgehog will be banished in the TCG. -Falzar FZ

Discuss.

-Resk (✩) 14:16, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I feel like that since they're stacked under the Xyz Monster in the same zone you wouldn't be able to tribute them or target them for other uses. But having field presence... I guess effects like Sangan would therefore have to activate. We need further confirmation. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 14:36, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Ojamacountry. I can summon 3 Gachi, and as the ojama is 'still on the field' the spell is active, apprently :3

-Resk (✩) 14:42, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

So my opponent won't able to play any Spell if I still have "Dark Magician" hide behind Rank 7 monster (which is NOT Spellcaster) while I also control "Secret Village of the Spellcasters"? --FredCat 14:44, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

"Xyz Materials are on the field. Period." thus, Yes Fred. xD (so silly)

-Resk (✩) 14:48, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I missed one important part:

"‎@by that logic, Sangan would get its effect as well, which contradicts everything I've read on the XYZ mechanic." - Kevin says "If you want somebody to explain everything else you've read, you'll need to ask the people who wrote whatever it is you read."

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:46, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

So he's saying.. Sangan -won't- get its effect ?_?-Resk (✩) 14:48, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

So, Falzar... can the Fields that Resk and I mentioned up above still work ever the monsters are not exist on the field (Hide behind Xyz Monsters)? --FredCat 14:48, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

He's commenting on someone else's comment, which would mean, Kevin implies that Sangan WILL get its effect. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:50, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Ugh, retarded. Somehow I feel like this is just a scheme to get more people to buy EXVC if Tengu gets his effect. If not, it's still pretty bad. Why widen the gap between TCG and OCG? First the priority change and now this. Ridiculous. Gearframe 15:05, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

So Kevin Tewart does not know how to play the game?--DoitForTheLulZ! (talk • contribs) 17:15, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

All of this is getting really bad in Europe. Everyone is against Tewart because first, he seems to want 2 different games (A "Yugioh TCG" and a "Yugioh OCG" with different rules and everything) and second his ideas (who started back in STON) of creating TCG exclusive card like Grandmaster of the Six Samurai. Cuz basically now, I pity the poor guyswho's going to the World Championship in Amsterdam because:

• The american can't use Reborn Tengu because Japanese don't have it
• The same american can't use Blizzard Princess because Europeans don't have it
• Japanese can't use Elemental HERO Escuridão because it's an OCG exclu

At the end, we, poor europeans, are the only one (along with the south americans) fucked in this story because if I count every OCG exclu that we can't play + every AMERICAN exclu that we can't use...

And now, as if every of that stupidity wasn't enough, our TCG game mechanic isn't the same as the Japanese. How would we do for the world championship 2012 with our XIZ ruling and their japanese one? I'm getting so bored of that border... I wish everyone could play with every card with the same rules... Wilimut ^Talk_Mail Paris, 17:25, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

This makes my headache worse. So they're making XYZ even wierder than it has to be? This is so absurd. The OCG rules seemed so well thought out, and we're screwing them now? This kinda ticks me off. I'm going to go make a sandwich and chill out with something more relaxing. 75.49.8.75 (talk) 18:47, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Well, to make it clearly for you, Unregistered User #75.49.8.75; OCG version of Xyz Monster, they blocked the using of "Monsters" that are known as Materials from be able to using effects/memory/etc., while we; TCG, get the access to them where Japan (unfortunate, that's only OCG) cannot access, however, included the negative part (Banish itself if summoned from Graveyard, one time used, etc.) --FredCat 18:49, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I understood that, I get the idea. It's just irksome, and it's going make explaining it to my friends a living nightmare. Especially because I was looking forward to being able to XYZ a rank 3 in my Dragon deck using Delta Flyer and Totem Dragon without losing Totem Dragon. 75.49.8.75 (talk) 18:53, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Fred, I missruled under the lol' of the ruling change,

"While you control a face-up "Ojama" monster,..." It's on the field, but it's not a monster, it's an overly.

"If you control a Spellcaster-Type monster.." It's on the field, but it's not a monster, it's an overly.

-Resk (✩) 21:12, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

As Resk said on the other page; the direct link is here.

I'll list whatever Kevin Tewart has said here; for quick reference.

Kevin Tewart related quotes

• "Do not use OCG rules as a reference."
• "As I've stated before in this group, Xyz Materials are on the field. Period. End of story."
• "Yes, Tengu leaves the field when he's detached. As I said before."
• "‎@by that logic, Sangan would get its effect as well, which contradicts everything I've read on the XYZ mechanic."

Kevin says "If you want somebody to explain everything else you've read, you'll need to ask the people who wrote whatever it is you read."

• "@if the Xyz monster is destroyed, are the materials also considered to be destroyed? or are they still considered to be sent?"

Kevin says "Sent"

• "@how do xyz monsters interact with magical hats? Do u put the materials with the xyz monster.facedown? How does this work" and "@You should take the materials aside, while performing the Magical Hat effect."

Kevin says "Sounds good to me."

• "@If Tengu is being ruled as getting it's effect when detached, by the same law so should Sangan, right? If they are not, what is different? They both activate in the graveyard so their text difference should be irrelevant as well. Just making my case and trying to understand this based on what I know of game mechanics, since in the past that is usually all you need to understand even the strangest of rulings. But this one is just confusing to me."

Kevin says "There is no difference."

• "They're considered "on the field" yes, but don't have their 'on the field' effects since they're not monsters anymore. If Exiled Force is an Xyz Material you can't Tribute it. If XX-saber Fulhelmknight is an Xyz Material, you can't negate an attack. Just like if these same monsters were equipped to Relinquished, etc."

"It's easiest to think of Xyz Materials as very similar to equipped monsters, at least for now. The main difference is that since they don't occupy zones, you can't go after them with Caius or Raikgei Break or (heh) MST."

• "@can tokens be used for xyz materials?"

Kevin says "no. You can't use tokens because they're not physical cards you can pile under the Xyz Monster. But you can use Trap Monsters, for the same reason. Because they are cards you can pile under an Xyz Monster."

• "@will the condition that plague puts on itself disappear if used as a Xyz material :) Thanks"

Kevin says "Similar to how Plaguespreader works if it becomes an equip spell card, Plaguespreader would be banished when it leaves the field. Again, this is under review. But run with that for now so as to avoid everyone having to memorize yet another ruling."

• "Xyz Materials are "sent to the Graveyard", not destroyed."

"If the Xyz Summon is negated, the Xyz Materials are sent to the Graveyard. You would get Sangan's effect but not T.G. Warwolf's."

"Again, this is under review pending revisions to the rulebook that are under consideration."

• "@When I use Gladiator Beast Darius as Xyz Material Monster, does the reborned monster belong on the field (+with his effect returned)?"

Kevin says "Darius no longer has any power over the other GB. It cannot negate its effects, nor can Darius say "I'M TAKING YOU WITH ME" when Darius goes to the Graveyard."

"@if Silent Psychic Wizard is used as Xyz Material after using it's effect does he special summon a monster when he is detached? So the Monster does not suffer a reset? (like plague still gets banished)"

Kevin says "You got it. See how easy it is?"

If anyone wants too, feel free to add more quotes of how Xyz works... from people who work at KDE; I'll update it as well if I happen to come across them.

(Julia Hedberg says: "The only people who can say anything official work for KDE. So myself, Kevin Tewart, Franklin Debrito, and Jerome McHale." "we don't really broadcast things that aren't official. That's why it's important to quote us exactly, and not re-interpret or draw new conclusions to other questions, based on what we say.")

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:39, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

XYZs and their attachment

Xyz monsters are "attached" not on the field When a Monster is "detached" it is sent to the grave (it went from "attached" to "grave" This is why i think the monster Leviair the Sea Dragon will be banned because it makes that difference noted

Xyz Materials are considered "attached" and if you read the story behind Xyz Monster it will tell you that the came from the other side of a black hole. Basically what im saying is "attached" is a whole new area liked Banish and it is not on the field but rather in its own place (sort of like a black hole).

Sangan does not get its effect when it is "detached' because it when from "attached" to the grave

Reborn Tengu also does not get his effect because he was never removed from the field but has was "attached" to the XYZ monster from the field (not counted as removed).

and from what i read from Kevin's ruling "They are XYZ Material, not monsters"

Example: If you have Dimensional Fissure face-up on the field and you detach one Xyz Material it goes to the grave instead.

LV2 Judge

Ahampster1 (talk • contribs) 00:53, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Kevin Tewart is the head of TCG, so whatever he says is how the TCG works. What you're saying is mostly what the OCG is.

I agree that it is bad, but you have to deal with it. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:10, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

@"TCG Xyz rules have the monsters still on the field." - Kevin says "Not quite. That's how the OCG is, too. In fact, we got this concept from them. That's why there's a card in Photon Shockwave that literally translates from Japanese as "Detach 1 Xyz Material on the field."" "In the OCG, when you detach an Xyz Material, you send it from the field to the Graveyard. ‎(Just like in the TCG.)"
lol, I think Kevin is confused about how the OCG works... -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 08:04, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

lol so it is on the field. What if i want to use Blackwing - Zephyros the Elite on a Xyz Material since it is still considered a card could i do that? My ruling is yes but with Konami you never know >_< Ahampster1 (talk • contribs) 11:10, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

@Ahampster; it's going to be removed, but Xyz Monster that "detach" in TCG still workable, I am tell ya. --FredCat 10:36, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think what is meant by the thing as a whole, is that while they are 'on the field', they aren't 'cards'. Cards take up a Spell/Trap/Monster 'Card' zone, (same reason equiped monsters become 'spell cards' in the 'spell card zone') so they -wouldn't- be targetable by Book of Moon or Raigeki Break.

Yes/No?

-Resk (✩) 11:28, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

I don't feel that this makes them incredibly broken UNLESS you can somehow swap other materials for them. The Tour Guide->Sangan thing certainly makes Tour Guide better but a Synchro Summon with these monsters will do the exact same thing, resulting in instant awesomeness plus a monster that is (probably) better unless, of course, your target was Steelswarm Roach.BobaFett2 (talk)

Blue-Blooded Oni +, Goblin Zombie

-Resk (✩) 12:33, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Resk, you're asking that "Trap Monster" cannot be target by Book of Moon or Raigeki Break, you're correct, because they are Trap Card, but they can be destroy while they can't be flip to face-down. Since "Trap Monster" are also "Card", a physical solid "body", they still usable to overlaying for Xyz. Token is just ghost, as they just disappear as soon as they leaving the field (ever detach) so that's why Kevin decided Token isn't count. I respect his careful choice of which is which. --FredCat 12:36, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Just wait till the next World Championship and we'll see what Tewart will say when presented with the Sangan problem. Actually, maybe he'd like to see what to do when Tag Force 6 and DS 2012 are out in the TCG areas. AbysmalDragon (talk • contribs) 13:26, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

This is crazy, I've been playing with what turn out to be OCG rules! Now KT throws a wrench in the whole thing and I hafta rethink certain strategies. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 13:57, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Alright big news. Judges of the World Championship in Amsterdam just received several rulings including about Xyz monsters. Here it is:

Additional Rules for Xyz Monsters

The only Xyz Monsters allowed at the World Championship are the ones from Starter Deck: Dawn of the Xyz. In case you (or your opponents) decide to play with these cards, here some answers to a few basic questions you might find helpful:

• You cannot use Tokens as Xyz Materials. You can use Trap Monsters, though.
• If an Xyz Monster is flipped face-down, its Xyz Materials remain face-up and are still attached to it.
• If you take control of your opponent’s Xyz Monster, its Xyz Materials come with it.
• If you have monsters in all 5 of your zones, you can still Xyz Summon.
• Xyz Monsters do not have a Level. They can never have a Level. So they cannot be used for a Synchro Summon, etc. They are also unaffected by cards that are based on Levels, such as “Gravity Bind”.
• When an Xyz Monster leaves the field, its Xyz Materials are sent to the Graveyard.

Here are a few specific combo answers, for purposes of this tournament:

• “Sangan” will not get its effect if used as an Xyz Material and is then sent to the Graveyard.
• If you negate an Xyz Summon (with “Solemn Judgment”, “Thunder King Rai-Oh”, etc.) then the Xyz Materials are sent to the Graveyard. Effects like “Sangan” will not activate.
• “Dandylion” WILL get its effect if used as an Xyz Material and then sent to the Graveyard.
• “Plaguespreader Zombie” goes to the Graveyard if detached, even if it was Summoned by its effect before it became an Xyz Material.
• If D.D. Survivor is detached and banished because “Macro Cosmos” is active, Survivor does not Special Summon itself.
• “Secret Barrel” does not count Xyz Materials. But it will count Xyz Monsters.
• If “Dimensional Fissure” is in play, Xyz Materials that are detached are sent to the Graveyard instead of being banished, since they are not monsters.
• If “Macro Cosmos” is in play, Xyz Materials that are detached are banished instead.
• If “Skill Drain” is active, you can still Xyz Summon. The effects of the Xyz Monster are negated, but the Xyz Materials remain piled under the Xyz Monster.
• If “Interdimensional Matter Transporter” is used on an Xyz Monster, its Xyz Materials are sent to the Graveyard.
• “Skull Invitation” will inflict damage when an Xyz Material is sent to the Graveyard.
• You cannot use a monster named by “Prohibition” as Xyz Material.

So yes, they decided to apply the OCG rulings but only for the world... Wilimut ^Talk_Mail Paris, 14:13, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Wait a sec...if I'm not mistaken when a monster is equipped and it would be Banished when removed from the field, then if it leaves the field it isn't Banished?BobaFett2 (talk)

If you mean attached monster, and if you mean for Dimensional Fissure, then it is sent to the Graveyard. If it was Macro Cosmos, then it will be Banished. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 14:21, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

No, I mean something totally different. See Plaguespreader Zombie, Scrap Mind Reader, Quillbolt Hedgehog, and the like.BobaFett2 (talk)

Yes, I guess they just go to the grave, not Banished, because of PLZ. ---Dark Ace SP™ (Talk) 14:54, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Valentin says: "Julia has stated it before: If you are not going to play at worlds, you shouldn't care about worlds. That usually does more bad than good. That's a special tournament, so they have a very special set of rules for everyone to adhere. I personally have no idea how it will be, but whatever it happens there, won't affect the way the rules are going to be in the OCG and TCG territories."
So that explains those rulings. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:16, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

That may be, but this is going to create massive problems in video games, which use OCG rulings. Unless they actually expend money to change the English version mechanics when the localize them, it's an issue. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:57, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Just a Random Thought

We could all email our respective Konami sections,about the exclusive and rulings dispute, for the U.S. it [email protected], the rest of the world I'm not sure. They would have to pay some attention if a ton of us Emailed KDE. --NutterHead (talk • contribs) 03:04, August 6, 2011 (UTC)