Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited

Key:
=	It should stay where it is.
↑	Chances are, it would become more Limited.
↓	Chances are, it would become less Limited.
-	Not sure / Please discuss below on what should go in these.
	In the Forbidden List, the chance of them coming off the Forbidden list is in order of Low, Very Low, Never.

• From the creator of the "List of cards to side in to cripple meta decks", comes the...

List of Reasons for why cards are Banned/Limited
Card Name	Reason	Chance of going up/down the list
Forbidden
Monster Cards
Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning	Can be Special Summoned easily, good effect, high ATK. Although Judgment Dragon can be better.	Very Low
Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End	Can be Special Summoned easily, good effect, high ATK, nuke and burn.	Very Low
Cyber Jar	Unlike Morphing Jar #2, this has a set amount. So the controller can use it to gain advantage easily.	-
Cyber-Stein	Yes, it has a huge cost. But it also foreshadows an instant OTK.	Very Low
Dark Magician of Chaos	Monster Reborn / Premature Burial / Dimension Fusion are also Forbidden, so the loop can't be made. Still, it's a strong monster with a very good effect. Effect even works when it's Special Summoned. Dark Armed Return decks are godly with this card. Also, Ice Queen was designed to replace it for spellcaster decks.	Very Low
Dark Strike Fighter	Easily Synchro Summoned, no Tuner limitations. High ATK for a level 7 Synchro. High burn damage. Can do 4000 damage by itself, so it's too fast for the format. Finishing move.	Low
Destiny Hero - Disk Commander	The effect is too powerful, turning ordinary revival cards into Pot of Greeds.	Never
Fiber Jar	Resets everything.	Never
Magical Scientist	Can easily create a FTK	Very Low
Magician of Faith	Allows the player to reuse Spells Cards, mostly ones with Broken effects like Heavy Storm and Brain Control. Was part of the Tsukuyomi Lockdown.	-
Makyura the Destructor	Use this card with cards like Jar of Greed and Legacy of Yata-Garasu to draw through your entire deck.	Never
Sinister Serpent	Free discard for costs, etc.	Never
Thousand-Eyes Restrict	Very good effect + Lock. Easily summoned with cards like Instant Fusion. Easily revived because of it's low ATK and low level. Was part of the Goat Control deck.	Very Low
Tribe-Infecting Virus	Lightning Vortex on legs, or Snipe Hunter on steroids.	Low
Tsukuyomi	Reusable Book of Moon effect. Hamster, Ryko, Hamster, Ryko ... OMG NOO!!!!! Was part of the Tsukuyomi Lockdown.	Low
Victory Dragon	It's hard to summon, but you win a Match, not a Game. In the TCG, you can Surrender just before that happens. However, the TCG banlist is the exactly the same as the OCG banlist and in the OCG, it's banned because you are only allowed to Surrender after the 10th turn; so unlike the TCG, it's possible for you to pull the effect off, even against experienced players. Also, this is the only Match Winner to not have the line "This card cannot be used in a Duel." So instead, they ban it.	Never.
Witch of the Black Forest	We already have 1 universal searcher, and that's limited. This is a more power version of that, able to search out strong key monsters. E.g. Dark Armed Dragon, Monarchs, etc...	Low
Yata-Garasu	This card alone, under the right circumstances, can create a lock by itself. see Yata-Garasu Lockdown.	Very Low
Spell Cards
Butterfly Dagger - Elma	Can make lots of Infinite Loops.	Never
Card of Safe Return	Can be better than Pot of Greed.	Very Low
Cathedral of Nobles	Similar effect to Makyura the Destructor (see above). Second effect is just as broken as Metamorphosis (below).	Never
Change of Heart	Brain Control with no cost, we don't need another Brain Control, and that card's limited. It's also like another Mind Control, which is also limited.	Never
Confiscation	Look at opponent's hand and discard anything. AKA 1 for 1 card + see opponent's hand bonus.	Low
Dark Hole	Too powerful, but then again, Starlight Road?	Low
Delinquent Duo	This 1 card kills 2 of your opponent's cards in their hand.	Very Low
Dimension Fusion	Too many good combos.	Very Low
Graceful Charity	Too fast. You draw before you discard. Sets up Graveyard. Can be better than Pot of Greed in certain decks.	Never
Harpie's Feather Duster	Too powerful. Heavy Storm is limited for a reason, and this card is even more powerful.	Never
Last Will	Formerly abused with Rescue Cat to create an OTK. Universal Searcher.	Very Low
Monster Reborn	Too fast. No cost. Special Summon from either Graveyard.	Low
Metamorphosis	Too many good combos. Notable ones include Beast King Barbaros → Cyber Twin Dragon and Metal Reflect Slime → Cyber End Dragon, Destiny End Dragoon or Naturia Extrio.	-
Mirage of Nightmare	Too fast *cough*darkworld/fabled*cough*. If it gets destroyed, you don't need to discard, so it's as good as Pot of Greed.	Never
Painful Choice	You don't lose hand advantage. Gets a good card or send cards that work well in the grave; similar to activating 4 Foolish Burials at once	Never
Pot of Greed	Too fast, no cost, everyone would use it.	Very Low
Premature Burial	Fast, good combos, can be reused fairly easily. Loops with cards like Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier.	Very Low
Raigeki	Too powerful.	Never
Snatch Steal	Too powerful, near permanent control for relatively low cost	Very Low
The Forceful Sentry	A Confiscation (above) with no cost. Returns the card to the deck and not Discard to the Graveyard. Having a card in the Graveyard is usually considered to be better that having it in the Deck.	Never
Trap Cards
Crush Card Virus	Kills almost everything for 3 turns	Very Low
Exchange of the Spirit	Really awesome in a Lightsworn, Future Fusion Machines/Worms and Magical Merchant Turbo decks.	Very Low
Imperial Order	Very powerful. But then again, we have Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 and Naturia Beast.	-
Last Turn	Broken. nuff-said.	Never
Ring of Destruction	Destroys a monster + massive burn damage. Lethal when combined with cards like Barrel Behind the Door. Finishing move.	Very Low
Sixth Sense	Banned so that psychics can't cheat, jk. You either draw, so it's like Pot of Greed (probably on drugs), or you get to mill, which can also be beneficial.	Never
Time Seal	Forces the opponent to skip a draw phase, which is lethal when they are topdecking.	-
Limited
Monster Cards
Black Rose Dragon	Universal Nuke. See also, Debris-Hime deck.	=
Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind	Can be Special Summoned. A reusable permanent Shrink. Universal Tuner.	=
Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier	Epic effect, can be used more than once per turn, can clear field by itself. Sets up Graveyard.	=, Low chance of ↑
Card Trooper	Can be a good beatstick for 1 turn. Sets up the Graveyard for many decks. When it dies, you draw 1, so no advantage lost. Machine Duplication can be used, so at max, it can be at 2. It should never be at 3.	=, Low chance of ↓
Chaos Sorcerer	Can be Special Summoned easily, good effect. However, relatively low ATK.	=, Very Low chance of ↓
Dark Armed Dragon	Can be Special Summoned easily. Specific destructive power. High ATK. See Dark Armed Return and Teleport Dark Armed.	=, Low chance of ↑
Elemental Hero Stratos	Searcher that triggers on Normal or Special Summon, and can search himself. Has decent ATK. You basically lose no advantage playing this card. Easily searched by other cards, such as E - Emergency Call and Reinforcement of the Army	=
Exodia the Forbidden One	With more draw cards coming out, and more stall cards coming out... Although unlikely, if 1 of the pieces becomes Forbidden, then the other 4 can be unlimited.	=, Very Low chance of ↑
Left Arm of the Forbidden One
Left Leg of the Forbidden One
Right Arm of the Forbidden One
Right Leg of the Forbidden One
Gladiator Beast Bestiari	Gyzarus spam.	=, Very Low chance of ↓
Gorz the Emissary of Darkness	Stops OTKs AND Special Summons a good Token.	=
Goyo Guardian	Very high ATK for a level 6. Good effect.	=
Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner	Easy effect that special summons a "Lightsworn" monster from the graveyard. Gives uses to cards that are useless in the hand (e.g. Wulf, Lightsworn Beast). Nice mill effect. Can Special Summon another copy of herself, so on the next turn you can use both their effects and she can be protected by Honest while you do that.	Low chance of ↓
Marshmallon	Relatively hard to kill. Instantly inflicts 1000 damage, which is quite a lot.	=
Mezuki	As if Zombies didn't have enough revival power.	=, Very Low chance of ↓
Mind Master	Mind Master OTK.	=, Chance of ↓
Morphing Jar	High draw power. Sets up Graveyard. However, the opponent can also abuse this.	=
Necroface	Necromill OTK	=, Very Low chance of ↓
Necro Gardna	Abusable in Lightsworns, and with Burial from a Different Dimension (however, this is also Limited).	=, Chance of ↓
Neo-Spacian Grand Mole	Can create locks. Easily takes out Synchro, Fusion and Ritual Monsters.	=
Night Assailant	Must be at 1 otherwise this card will just search for the other one and a loop will be created	=, definitely
Plaguespreader Zombie	Top decks a card (Infernity Archfiend anyone?). Universal Tuner.	=
Rescue Cat	Instant +1. Abusable by Gladiator Beasts, Naturia, Synchro Cat and especially X-Sabers. Too cute for the meta xD	Chance of ↑
Sangan	Universal searcher.	=
Snipe Hunter	Formerly abused in Gadget Decks due to massive hand advantage to fuel its effect.	-
Spirit Reaper	Relatively hard to kill. Its other effects are also great.	=, Very Low chance of ↓
Summoner Monk	Monk --> Monk --> Cat = Pwn, but at 1 it doesn't work as well. He's a Spellcaster, so Arcanite Magician can be abused.	=, Chance of ↓ if Cat gets hit
Tragoedia	Stops OTK AND has other good effects.	=
Spell Cards
Advanced Ritual Art	See Heralds combo and Demise/Doom OTK decks.	=
Allure of Darkness	The most splashable draw card since Pot of Greed.	=
Brain Control	Staple. Essentially a +1, because the opponent loses a monster, and you kinda gain a monster. Very useful for Synchro Summons and then attacking directly.	=, Low chance of ↑
Burial from a Different Dimension	Can abuse cards like Mezuki, Plaguespreader Zombie, Necro Gardna, Blackwing - Vayu the Emblem of Honor, etc.	=
Card Destruction	Sets up your Hand and possibly Graveyard. Can mess up, or help out with, the opponent's Hand, but can also set up their Graveyard. Works very well with Dark World and Fabled.	=
Charge of the Light Brigade	It's like RotA, but for Lightsworns, and it also mills.	=, Very Low chance of ↓
Cold Wave	Freezes backrow for a fairly long time. Preparations for an OTK.	=, Low chance of ↑
Destiny Draw	Works very well with Destiny Hero - Malicious. Was a semi-universal draw engine, however not used as much now.	Chance of ↓
Emergency Teleport	See Mind Master (above). Also, Special Summons a Tuner for a quick Synchro Summon.	=, Low chance of ↓
Foolish Burial	Lots of decks rely on the Graveyard a lot. Works well with Wulf, Lightsworn Beast, Plaguespreader Zombie, etc.	=, Low chance of ↓
Future Fusion	Gives Fusion Monsters a chance. However it can be abused and used as a Foolish Burial x(2+). It can also OTK with Overload Fusion, but that's also Limited.	=
Giant Trunade	Clears back field and prepares for OTK	=
Heavy Storm	Same as Giant Trunade. But a more permanent solution. It had a Very Low chance of being Forbidden until Starlight Road was released.	=
Level Limit - Area B	Stalls a lot.	=
Limiter Removal	Easy OTK in Machine decks.	=
Megamorph	Doubling original ATK can be a lot, sometimes enough to OTK. The drawback of halving when you have more LPs isn't too bad either as you can equip it to your opponent's monsters.	-
Mind Control	Another Brain Control, but for Synchro Summoning / Effect uses only.	=
Monster Gate	Was used a lot by Turbo and OTK decks.	=
Mystical Space Typhoon	Fast. Staple. 1 for 1 card.	=, Low chance of ↓
One for One	Mind Master OTK and Frog OTK decks use this a lot. If some of those cards become Forbidden, then this could come back to assist some of the weaker archetypes such as Morphtronics.	=
Overload Fusion	Chimeratech Overdragon. nuff said.	=
Reasoning	Was used a lot by Turbo and OTK decks. Free Monster or easily dumps Monster to Graveyard, both can be beneficial.	=
Reinforcement of the Army	This card adds additional speed to Lightsworns, however Warriors need this back, so hitting Honest and Charge of the Light Brigade would be so much fairer than hitting this.	Chance of ↓
Scapegoat	Stalls quite a bit. However, there are more cards that Pierce now. Easy Synchro Material. Was part of the Goat Control deck	=
Swords of Revealing Light	Stalls for quite a long time. You can still attack while the opponent cannot.	=
Trap Cards
Call of the Haunted	Must fairer speed when compared to its Spell counterparts. Can't be abused multiple times per turn (Premature Burial). Can only special summon from your own graveyard (Monster Reborn).	=
Ceasefire	In the right conditions it can inflict major burn damage. Finishing move.	=
Gravity Bind	Stalls a lot.	=
Return from the Different Dimension	OTK decks use this. If you Special Summon Jinzo, along with many strong monsters, then you've basically won.	=
Magic Cylinder	Negates an attack and inflicts major burn damage. Finishing move.	=
Magical Explosion	See Magical Explosion FTK	=
Mind Crush	1 for 1 card. You don't really need to be a psychic to use this card. "Salvage/Dark Factory of Mass Production, Sangan, Gold Sarcophagus, Machina Gearframe, Gadgets, etc. Allows you to know what card they have. Also, this card owns Ritual Monsters, when the activate their Ritual Spell Card, chain this and call the name of their Monster; a 2 for 1.	=
Mirror Force	Solid game changer. However, now that Starlight Road is out, you need to be more careful when using this card.	=
Ojama Trio	Helps the opponent to Synchro Summon... Why this card isn't less limited, I have no idea.	Chance of ↓
Solemn Judgment	Halving your LPs to activate a card is quite fair, but to negate basically anything...	-
The Transmigration Prophecy	OCG stall decks use this with D.D. Borderline. Also, it must be at 1 otherwise this card will just return another copy of itself and a loop will be created. Pot of Benevolence does the same thing, but that can't be chained to an effect, and that removes itself so it can't return another copy of itself.	=, almost certain
Torrential Tribute	Same as Mirror Force (above)	=
Trap Dustshoot	Although it's like Confiscation (above), it is a trap, so it's slower. It also has a restriction, so you can only use it if the opponent has a fair amount of Hand Advantage.	=
Wall of Revealing Light	Facing three in an Exodia Deck with LP recovery would be a real pain. It should stay Limited unless we get more bounce/destroy cards.	=
Semi-Limited
Monster Cards
Cyber Dragon	Can be Special Summoned easily. Good ATK. Usable in many decks. However, there are increasing amounts of new decks that can Special Summon "a bunch of monsters in one turn", so older decks need this.	=, Low chance of ↑
Dandylion	Compulsory effect. Gives lots of advantage most of the time. Re-usable in many decks. However, there are more cards that Pierce now.	Chance of ↑
Demise, King of Armageddon	See Demise/Doom OTK	-
Destiny Hero - Malicious	His effect can't be used if at 1. If at 3, the advantages will be too high so...	=, almost certain
Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier	There's a loop with Symbol of Heritage and Mass Driver; if you have 3 Dewloren's in the Graveyard. So this card must be at 2 to prevent that.	=, unless Mass Driver gets hit
Goblin Zombie	Very good searcher. In a Zombie deck, it can be more abuseable than Sangan or Witch of the Black Forest because of their revival power.	=
Honest	Very good effect. It basically deals lots of battle damage to the opponent while destroying the opponent's monster. Easily reused with Beckoning Light.	=, Chance of ↑
Judgment Dragon	Can be Special Summoned easily. Low cost to nuke the Field except itself. 3000 ATK. Double JD is just broken, especially when they can be returned to your hand with Beckoning Light.	=, Chance of ↑
Lonefire Blossom	Search and Special Summon ANY plant; this includes Tuners, Mystic Tomato, Tytannial, Princess of Camellias, etc. With the new Naturia cards, this card will most likely stay at 2.	=
Treeborn Frog	Yes it's a free Tribute, but you can only activate 1 anyway. So limiting isn't going to do much. Semi-Limit is still OK because the new removal cards tend to remove 2 at once.	=
Spell Cards
Black Whirlwind	Fairly similar to the Forbidden card Card of Safe Return. Gives major Hand Advantage to Blackwing decks.	=
Chain Strike	Chain burn decks such as Chain Strike OTK.	-
Gold Sarcophagus	Adds any card from your deck to your Hand. Removes the card face-up. However takes 2 turns before the card actually gets to your Hand, which is rather slow.	-
Magical Stone Excavation	Allows quick reuse of major Spell Cards. However, has a heavy cost.	-
United We Stand	Yes it makes monsters into bigger beatsticks, but with so many cards to stop it... (e.g. Book of Moon, Dimensional Prison, etc.)	-
Trap Cards
Bottomless Trap Hole	Very powerful 1 for 1 card. Removes the monster upon Summon. Staple.	=
Royal Decree	1 card to continuously stop a large amount of cards.	-
Royal Oppression	1 card to continuously stop a large amount of cards. Some decks abuse the fact that it cannot be used in the Damage Step. Blackwings can use this card in their deck fairly well.	-
Skill Drain	1 card to continuously stop a large amount of cards. Works well with cards such as Beast King Barbaros. See also: Skill Drain Deck	-
Ultimate Offering	Gadget, Gadget, Gadget, Barbaros, Gadget, Gadget, Gadget, Gadget, OTK! or Gadget, Gadget, Gadget... Limiter Removal, OTK! Alternatively, it can be used in Gemini Decks; such as Gigaplant OTK.	-
Unlimited
Monster Cards
Mask of Darkness	Well, Royal Oppression became Limited when this became Unlimited, not that anyone was using this card anyway.	-
Smashing Ground	Fissure became Unlimited, so this followed.	-

This list is for the people who are curious about why certain cards are banned/limited.

This list can also assist people before posting a prediction on the next banlist.

Please help out by pointing out changes that should be made in the list (if any) (please include reasons).

Keep in mind that the TCG banlist is exactly the same as the OCG banlist (minus the OCG exclusives). So, reasons should be based on the OCG rulings. (adding a note to those would be appreciated, something like the one on Victory Dragon.)

And for those who are wondering. No, I didn't make this list recently. It been on 2 other forums before. This is the most updated version of it as the other 2 aren't being updated. --  Falzar FZ  talk page  useful stuff    07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, maybe it was a bit too general to ask to fill the list. So, if you know exactly what you're doing, go ahead and add them. Although I would recommend (so it is optional) that you still post a note in the edit log, so that you're credited for the edit, etc.
If you're unsure of the reason, or have different opinions, feel free to post them below. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 10:57, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Edit Log

• Created page. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

• Added "Edit Log" and "Discussion" sections. ^_^-- HHTurtle ^Talk   11:34, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

• Small note on Cyber Jar, more reasons for Stratos, Lumina, Mind Master, etc. Links to a few terms. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 05:48, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

• Stickied as requested. It'd work after the feature's been implemented. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 08:21, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

To start things off...
Why is Metamorphosis banned when Thousand-Eyes Restrict is also banned? Isn't that the main reason?
Did Konami ban Victory Dragon because they can? because there's something called surrendering. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 05:48, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Metamorphosis can still summon some very strong Fusion Monsters easily. For Victory Dragon, you have to understand that although you can surrender anytime during the duel in the TCG, you can only surrender starting from the 10th turn in the OCG so it still makes Victory Dragon very BROKEN.-- HHTurtle ^Talk   06:09, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Metal Reflect Slime + Cyber End Dragon.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 15:41, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. Adding + slight expansion on the topic. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 06:26, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'm right there with you on the Ojama Trio, RoTA, and Judgement Dragon bits for sure. Everything else I'm pretty neutral about though. Goblinpunch787

Good to hear that you don't specifically disagree to anything. This list is supposed to be something that almost everyone can generally agree on. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 11:57, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that each card has a reason next to it. nice! Thanks for those who contributed.
Now to do the "Chances" column. I would prefer it if no one changes this column (to prevent edit wars). Instead, please post below and discuss them. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 11:57, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Ojama Trio is "not less limited" for good reason. The only way to turn Ojama Trio on it's head for general decks is to tune them, but when you don't have a tuner, it clogs your field to prevent swarming of any more than 2 monsters, and stops all kinds of other stuff. It's another OTK stopper, It makes Ojama Decks practically unstoppable, and there are also many ways to abuse it to create OTKs. I totally agree with pretty much everything else, entirely. Great list. NecrofearNorleras (talk • contribs) 14:55, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the guy above me. I'm not sure if you guys know of this but there was an annoying deck in the OCG when Ojama Trio was released. You activate Ground Collapse during your turn and then activate Ojama Trio during your opponent's turn, preferably during the Draw Phase or Standby Phase. This will cause your opponent to have no real use of their monster zones. It was really annoying and broken.-- HHTurtle ^Talk   16:22, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

If you have a Tuner, can't you switch the token to ATK mode, suicide (with 0 ATK >.<), then summon a Tuner and Synchro for a level 5-8 monster? But still, I'll consider changing that a bit. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 21:50, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

There's something that shouldn't be there. Changing Decree, Oppression and Drain: = → - until it's further discussed.
Their strengths are too different. Oppression might be Limited, while the other 2 may stay imo. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 08:21, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, Victory Dragon ain't broken anymore, due to many removable - Fissure, Smashing Ground, Lightning Vortex, Mirror Force, Bottomless Trap Hole, etc. So why is it stay on banlist, eh? Oh yes, no one playing Match duel when come to him. --FredCat100 (talk • contribs) 19:01, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

The problem with victory dragon is since they ALWAYS could possibly win the match, even if you won 2 of three, you must play the third game, since they could win the match still--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 15:45, August 13, 2010 (UTC)