Difference between revisions of "Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited"

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{{Forumheader|Yu-Gi-Oh! Lists Discussion|sticky=yes}}
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{{Forum/header|Yu-Gi-Oh! Lists Discussion|sticky=yes}}
  
 
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{| border="1" style="margin:auto;" cellspacing="0" class="box colored type-character"
 
|-
 
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" | Key:
 
|-
 
| &nbsp;=&nbsp;
 
| &nbsp;It should stay where it is. &nbsp;
 
|-
 
| &nbsp;↑&nbsp;
 
| &nbsp;Chances are, it would become more Limited. &nbsp;
 
|-
 
| &nbsp;↓&nbsp;
 
| &nbsp;Chances are, it would become less Limited. &nbsp;
 
|-
 
| &nbsp;-&nbsp;
 
| &nbsp;Not sure / Please [[#Discussion|discuss below on what should go in these]]. &nbsp;
 
|-
 
| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
 
| &nbsp;In the Forbidden List, the chance of them coming off the Forbidden list is in order of Low, Very Low, Never. &nbsp;
 
|}
 
  
 
== List ==
 
== List ==
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<!--Do not update this List with position changes until those changes into effect, even if they are revealed earlier.-->
  
 
* From the creator of the "[[Forum:List_of_cards_to_side_in_to_cripple_meta_decks|List of cards to side in to cripple meta decks]]", comes the...
 
* From the creator of the "[[Forum:List_of_cards_to_side_in_to_cripple_meta_decks|List of cards to side in to cripple meta decks]]", comes the...
  
<center>
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<div align=right>[{{fullurl:Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited/List|action=edit}} Edit the list]</div>
{| class="wikitable collapsible collapsed" style="width:95%"
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{{Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited/List}}
|-
 
! style="font-size: 150%; background-color:black;" colspan=3 class="mainheader" |[[March 2012 Lists|<span style="color:white;">List of Reasons for why cards are Banned/Limited</span>]]
 
|-
 
! style="font-size: 110%; background-color:#333; color:white" align="center" |Card Name
 
! style="font-size: 110%; background-color:#333; color:white" align="center" |Reason
 
! style="font-size: 110%; background-color:#333; color:white" align="center" |Chance of going up/down the list
 
|-
 
! style="font-size: 150%; background-color:black;" colspan=3 class="mainheader" |[[Forbidden|<span style="color:white;">Forbidden</span>]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End]]
 
| Can be Special Summoned easily, good effect, high ATK, nuke and burn. [[Judgment Dragon]] destroys all cards, while this card Sends all the cards. If you don't finish off your opponent, but you use its effect while you control a monster like [[Sangan]], you can easily gain an advantage over your opponent since they'll be topdecking and you'll have a monster.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Cyber Jar]]
 
| Resets all monsters instantly. Unlike [[Morphing Jar 2|Morphing Jar <sup>#</sup>2]], this has a set amount. So it can be abused, allowing the controller can use it to gain advantage easily.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Cyber-Stein]]
 
| Yes, it has a huge cost. But it also foreshadows an instant [[OTK]].
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Dark Magician of Chaos]]
 
| [[Premature Burial]] / [[Dimension Fusion]] are also Forbidden, so the loop can't be made with those cards. It's a strong monster with a very good effect; his effect even works when it's Special Summoned. [[Dark Armed Return]] decks are godly with this card. Also, [[Ice Queen]] was designed to replace it for spellcaster decks.
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[Dark Strike Fighter]]
 
| Easily Synchro Summoned, no Tuner limitations. High ATK for a level 7 Synchro Monster. High burn damage. Can do 4000 damage by itself, so it's too fast for the format. Finishing move.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Destiny HERO - Disk Commander]]
 
| The effect is too powerful, [[Card Tips:Destiny HERO - Disk Commander|turning ordinary revival cards into Pot of Greeds]].
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Fiber Jar]]
 
| Resets everything. Also puts itself back into the deck. If used in a deck with cards like [[Soul Release]], you can slowly Banish your opponent's entire deck, while giving them a smaller deck each time Fiber Jar is used.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Fishborg Blaster]]
 
| Broken with [[Formula Synchron]], which is now limited. An infinite [[Glow-Up Bulb]], [[Spore]] or [[Plaguespreader Zombie]]; although limited only to WATER attributes. [[Fishborg Launcher]] was designed to replace this card.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Glow-Up Bulb]]
 
| [[Plant]] decks were still topping after being hit format after format, Konami must have decided to finally kill them. Easily recyclable through its own effect, but the effect can only be used once per duel. This may have also been a hit to Future Fusion First Turn Quasar decks. Besides, limiting it to 1 would be pointless.
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[Goyo Guardian]]
 
| Just unbalanced. Very high ATK for a level 6. Good effect. Summons the opponent's monster right away so it can be used for Synchro/Xyz Summons.
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Magical Scientist]]
 
| Can easily create an [[FTK]] with [[Catapult Turtle]]. Also, can easily lead to a swarm of Xyz monsters.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Magician of Faith]]
 
| Allows the player to reuse Spells Cards, mostly ones with broken effects like [[Heavy Storm]] and [[Dark Hole]]. Was part of the [[Tsukuyomi Lockdown]].
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Makyura the Destructor]]
 
| Use this card with cards like [[Jar of Greed]] and [[Legacy of Yata-Garasu]] to draw through your entire deck Even easier to use today with [[Foolish Burial]] and [[Armageddon Knight]].
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Mind Master]]
 
| Maybe Konami really hates [[Card Tips:Brain Research Lab|FTK]]s. Very similar to Substitoad (which is also Forbidden), except you pay LP each time (or you can use 1 more card to bypass it). [[Calm, Silent Gusta]] can also be abused with this card.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Rescue Cat]]
 
| Instant +1. Abusable by [[Gladiator Beasts]], [[Naturia]], [[Wind-Up]]s, [[Synchro Cat]] and especially [[X-Sabers]]. Decks can spam this (e.g. [[Dark Desertapir]]). Too cute for the meta xD
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Sinister Serpent]]
 
| Free discard for [[costs]], etc. Infinite defender.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Spore]]
 
| See [[Glow-Up Bulb]].
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Substitoad]]
 
| Badly designed card, able to mill most of your deck in one turn. Combos well with [[Pot of Avarice]]. See also [[Frog Burn FTK]] (The most consistent burn/OTK/FTK deck for March 2010). [[Tradetoad]] was designed to be a fair version of it.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#A086B7;"
 
| [[Thousand-Eyes Restrict]]
 
| Very good effect + Lock. Was part of the [[Goat Control]] deck. Easily Fusion Summoned with [[Instant Fusion]]. Easily revived because of it's low ATK and low level (e.g. [[Graceful Revival]] and [[Limit Reverse]]). You can use Instant Fusion, use its effect, then Tribute it for a Monarch.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Tribe-Infecting Virus]]
 
| [[Lightning Vortex]] on legs, or [[Snipe Hunter]] on steroids. Now even more potent due to [[Agent|many]] [[Inzektor|archetypes]] [[Dark World|being]] [[Karakuri|mainly]] [[Six Samurai|one Type]]. [[Tribe-Shocking Virus]] was designed to replace it.
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier]]
 
| Was easily the best Synchro around. Easy to drop in most Synchro based decks. [[Banish|Banishes]] a card from 3 different places. [[Agent]]s could also drop her easily. The loop in [[Infernity|Infernities]] to drop her infinite times may have been a contributing factor as well.
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Tsukuyomi]]
 
| Reusable [[Book of Moon]] effect. [[Super-Nimble Mega Hamster|Hamster]], [[Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter|Ryko]], Hamster, Ryko ... OMG NOO!!!!! Was part of the [[Tsukuyomi Lockdown]].
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Victory Dragon]]
 
| It's hard to summon, but you win a [[Match]], not a Game. In the TCG, you can [[Surrender]] just before that happens. However, the TCG banlist is the exactly the same as the OCG banlist and in the OCG, it's banned because you are only allowed to Surrender after the 10th turn; so unlike the TCG, it's possible for you to pull the effect off, even against experienced players. Also, this is the only [[Match Winner]] to not have the line "''This card cannot be used in a Duel.''" So instead, they ban it. [[Hieratic]]s could drop this easily.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Witch of the Black Forest]]
 
| We already have 1 [[Sangan|universal searcher]], and that's limited. This is a more power version of that, able to search out strong key monsters. E.g. [[Dark Armed Dragon]], [[Monarchs]], etc...
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Yata-Garasu]]
 
| This card alone, under the right circumstances, can create a lock by itself. see [[Yata-Garasu Lockdown]].
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Brain Control]]
 
| This card can win games by itself at the right moment. Essentially a +1, because the opponent loses a monster, and you kinda gain a monster. Very useful for Synchro Summons and then attacking directly. Can be used to gain Tribute fodder.
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Butterfly Dagger - Elma]]
 
| Creates [[Infinite Loop]]s.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Card of Safe Return]]
 
| Can be better than [[Pot of Greed]], due to the increasing number of Decks that rely on Graveyard manipulation. Abusable in decks like [[Zombies]], [[Wind-Up]], [[Fabled]], [[Dark World]], etc. Also note that this card was banned just before the release of [[Absolute Powerforce]], which introduced the [[Inca]] archetype which would have overly abused this card.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Temple of the Kings]]
 
| Has the same effect as [[Makyura the Destructor]] (see above). Second effect is just as broken as Metamorphosis (below).
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Change of Heart]]
 
| Better than Brain Control, and that card's also Forbidden. It's also much better than Mind Control, which is limited.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Cold Wave]]
 
| Freezes backrow for a fairly long time. Preparations for an OTK. Also leaves the opponent vulnerable and unable to defend themselves once you use an effect that destroys their backrow.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Confiscation]]
 
| Look at opponent's hand and discard anything for a fairly low cost. AKA 1 for 1 card + see opponent's hand bonus.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Delinquent Duo]]
 
| This 1 card kills 2 of your opponent's cards in their hand.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Dimension Fusion]]
 
| Too many good combos. Was abused with [[Dark Armed Dragon]] to clear the opponent's field and swarm your own, forming an OTK.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Giant Trunade]]
 
| Clears back field and prepares for OTK. Not as potent as Heavy Storm as the S/Ts can be re-Set by your opponent on the next turn, though it's harder to negate and also allows you to re-Set your S/T defense after its use as well. Probably banned since Heavy Storm was needed to prevent the Set everything on first turn for game strategies, and we don't need another mass S/T removing card. It can also allow certain cards to be reused, such as the now-Semi-Limited Swords of Revealing Light.
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Graceful Charity]]
 
| Too fast. You draw before you discard. Sets up Graveyard. Can be better than [[Pot of Greed]] in certain decks, such as [[Dark World]] or [[Fabled]].
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Harpie's Feather Duster]]
 
| Too powerful. [[Heavy Storm]] at 1 is enough, and this card is much more powerful that that.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Last Will]]
 
| Mainly was banned for making the extremely fast [[Card Tips:Catapult Turtle|Turtle FTK]]. Nowadays it remains banned, because of [[Synchro]]s, [[Monarchs]] and much more. After activation, its effect can even be used during battle phase. Universal Searcher.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Mass Driver]]
 
| Abused in many Decks to form a FTK, since it does not use up the Normal Summon and can be used multiple times a turn. Finishing move.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Metamorphosis]]
 
| [[Card Tips:Metamorphosis|Too many good combos]]. Notable ones include [[Beast King Barbaros]] → [[Cyber Twin Dragon]] and [[Metal Reflect Slime]] → [[Cyber End Dragon]], [[Destiny End Dragoon]] or [[Naturia Extrio]].
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Mirage of Nightmare]]
 
| Too fast *cough*darkworld/fabled*cough*. If it gets destroyed, you don't need to discard, so it's as good as Pot of Greed. Also combos with [[Emergency Provisions]] extremely well.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Painful Choice]]
 
| You don't lose hand advantage. Gets a good card or send cards that work well in the grave; similar to activating 4 Foolish Burials at once.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Pot of Greed]]
 
| Too fast, no cost, everyone would use it. While it's true that it would increase the speed of slower decks; it would help decks that already have draw power even more (as they would use their draw power to draw into this card more often).
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Premature Burial]]
 
| Fast, good combos, can be reused fairly easily. Loops with cards like [[Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier]]. There are combos that allow 1 Special Summon per turn through cards like [[Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier]], [[Falcon of Mist Valley]], etc. Searchable and reusable via [[Hidden Armory]].
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Raigeki]]
 
| Too powerful. Dark Hole is Limited, we don't need another card that destroys all monsters and this card only destroys the opponent's monsters.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Snatch Steal]]
 
| Too powerful, near permanent control. Opponent's LP gain can be offset by stealing a strong monster and consistently attacking with it, or by Tributing or Synchro Summoning with the target. Searchable and reusable via [[Hidden Armory]].
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[The Forceful Sentry]]
 
| A [[Confiscation]] (above) with no cost. Returns the card to the deck rather than discarding it to the Graveyard. Having a card in the Graveyard is usually considered to be better that having it in the Deck.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Crush Card Virus]]
 
| Kills almost everything for 3 turns, and covers both the field, hand, and future draws. Can even be combo'ed with [[Sangan]] or [[Plaguespreader Zombie]] or even [[Necro Gardna]] to utilize their effects.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Exchange of the Spirit]]
 
| Really awesome in a [[Lightsworn]], [[Future Fusion]] [[Machine]]s/[[Worm]]s and [[Magical Merchant Turbo]] decks. Can also fuel an OTK by emptying the opponent's Deck on their very first turn.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Imperial Order]]
 
| Powerful Spell lock via a [[Continuous Effect]]. You even have the option to lift the two-way Spell lock by not paying the cost. While [[Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8]] and [[Naturia Beast]] can do the same thing, these effects start a chain, allowing for a [[Counter Trap]] to negate these effects.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Last Turn]]
 
| An instant win is guaranteed when you control [[Archlord Kristya|a monster that]] [[Vanity's Fiend|prevents your opponent]] [[Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo|from Special Summoning]].
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Ring of Destruction]]
 
| Mainly was banned for causing too many draws in Tournaments and messing up Ranked Games. Instant destruction and serious burn. Lethal when combined with cards like [[Barrel Behind the Door]] or [[Spell of Pain]].
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Royal Oppression]]
 
| 1 card to <u>continuously</u> stop a large amount of cards and cripple a large number of decks with a fairly low cost. Some decks abuse the fact that it cannot be used in the [[Damage Step]]. [[Blackwing]]s can use this card in their deck fairly well. [[User:Falzar_FZ/Misc#RoyalOppression-orSolemnWarningValhalla|Can stop a larger variety of cards]] than Solemn Warning, which has a larger cost and can only be used once.
 
| Low
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Sixth Sense]]
 
| Banned so that psychics can't cheat, jk. This is potentially one of the strongest forms of draw power, being able to draw up to 6 cards from one effect. The drawback is also potentially beneficial, especially with more Graveyard-reliant Decks.
 
| Never
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Time Seal]]
 
| Forces the opponent to skip a draw phase, which is lethal when they are topdecking. Unlike [[Drastic Drop Off]], this card can be chained anytime, making it much better, also with [[Mask of Darkness]] at 3, lockdown decks could take unfair advantage.
 
| Very Low
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Trap Dustshoot]]
 
| Devastating to the opponent if played on them during their first turn. Broken with 2 [[Mind Crush]]es. Many thought that the opponent having to have at least 4 cards in hand was not a fair enough restriction. But, it is a horrrible topdeck.
 
| Low
 
|-
 
! style="font-size: 150%; background-color:black;" colspan=3 class="mainheader" |[[Limited|<span style="color:white;">Limited</span>]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning]]
 
| Can be Special Summoned easily, good effect, high ATK. [[Honest]] can be used on his first attack, then the 2nd attack would be deadly. See also: [[Chaos]].
 
| Chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind]]
 
| Can be Special Summoned. A reusable permanent [[Shrink]]. Universal Tuner.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow]]
 
| Can easily turn battles around in [[Blackwing]] Decks. Unlike [[Honest]], it can even be used when attacking directly for massive damage.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier]]
 
| Epic effect, can be used more than once per turn, can clear field by itself. Sets up Graveyard.
 
| =, Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Dark Armed Dragon]]
 
| Can be Special Summoned easily. Specific destructive power. High ATK. See [[Dark Armed Return]] and [[Teleport Dark Armed]].
 
| =, Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Dandylion]]
 
| Compulsory effect. Gives lots of advantage most of the time. Re-usable in many decks, creates Tokens that can be used for Synchro or Tribute Summons. Effect also triggers when it enters the Graveyard through any means.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Debris Dragon]]
 
| Highly useable with the number of Level 3 monsters with very low ATK like [[Lonefire Blossom]] or [[Dandylion]]. Can easily make LV7 Synchros like [[Black Rose Dragon]], or higher-level monsters if Tokens are present on the field. With GUB and Spore banned, Plant Synchro is dead and this could become less restricted. See also: Lonefire Blossom (below)
 
| =, Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Elemental Hero Stratos]]
 
| Searcher that triggers on Normal or Special Summon, and can search himself. Has decent ATK. You basically lose no advantage playing this card. Easily searched by other cards, such as [[E - Emergency Call]] and [[Reinforcement of the Army]]. Was part of the Airblade Turbo deck, the top deck of the September 2006 Format.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Exodia the Forbidden One]]
 
| rowspan="5" | With more draw cards coming out, and more stall cards coming out...<br>Although unlikely, if 1 of the pieces becomes Forbidden, then the other 4 can be unlimited.
 
| rowspan="5" | =, Very Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#FDE68A;"
 
| [[Left Arm of the Forbidden One]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FDE68A;"
 
| [[Left Leg of the Forbidden One]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FDE68A;"
 
| [[Right Arm of the Forbidden One]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FDE68A;"
 
| [[Right Leg of the Forbidden One]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[Formula Synchron]]
 
| Easily Summoned with cards like [[Glow-Up Bulb]] (which is now Forbidden) and tokens made by [[Dandylion]]. Crazy when played with [[T.G. Hyper Librarian]].
 
| =, Low Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Gladiator Beast Bestiari]]
 
| Required to Summon [[Gladiator Beast Gyzarus]], and also as a key means of S/T removal. Limiting this will solve both problems.
 
| =, Very Low chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Gorz the Emissary of Darkness]]
 
| Stops OTKs <u>AND</u> Special Summons a good Token.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Honest]]
 
| Very good effect. Allows your monster to run over any other monster, and deal decent damage. Easily reused with Beckoning Light. Abusable with [[Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning|BLS]].
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En]]
 
| Even with Gateway limited, Six Samurais were still a force to be reckoned with. Shi En is a very easy Synchro for Six Samurais to bring out, having the same ATK as Stardust Dragon and a better negation effect. It also has the 'My Buddy as a Shield' effect to prevent it from being destroyed.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Lonefire Blossom]]
 
| Search and Special Summon ANY plant; this includes Tuners, [[Mystic Tomato]], [[Tytannial, Princess of Camellias]], etc. Doppel-plants and quite a few other plant type decks were also topping tournaments for a long while. Formerly abused in Synchrocentric, but not as good anymore with Glow-Up Bulb and Spore banned.
 
| =, Low Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Mezuki]]
 
| As if [[Zombie]]s didn't have enough revival power -.-
 
| =, Very Low chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Morphing Jar]]
 
| High draw power. Sets up Graveyard. However, the opponent can also abuse this.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Necroface]]
 
| [[Macro]] Decks of any sort LOVE this card. Has potential of being a powerful beater and resets and sets up Banished cards. Combined with [[Soul Absorption]] is a free 5500 Life Points gained when banished. Having multiple copies can loop them, chain their own effects when banished from deck, or make OTKs ([[Necromill OTK]]).
 
| =, Very Low chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Neo-Spacian Grand Mole]]
 
| Can create locks. Easily takes out [[Synchro]], [[Fusion]], and [[Ritual]] Monsters.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Night Assailant]]
 
| Must be at 1 otherwise this card will just search for the other one and a loop will be created
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Plaguespreader Zombie]]
 
| Top decks a card ([[Infernity Archfiend]] anyone?). Universal Tuner.
 
| =, Low Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Sangan]]
 
| Universal searcher.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[T.G. Hyper Librarian]]
 
| Super splashable, low level with decent ATK, works when either player Synchro Summons.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[T.G. Striker]]
 
| [[T.G.]] [[Agent]]s were one of the top decks in Japan. Easily searched by the other T.G. monsters. Has the [[Cyber Dragon]] effect (which would then lead to a [[T.G. Warwolf|Warwolf]] Special Summon). The last thing we needed was a searchable Tuner that can be summoned almost instantly.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[The Agent of Mystery - Earth]]
 
| Another hit to T.G. Agents. Was like [[Elemental HERO Stratos|Stratos]] for Agents, and he's limited. Putting this to 1 gets rid of 2 targets for summoning [[Master Hyperion]] It's also a Tuner.
 
| =, Low Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Advanced Ritual Art]]
 
| See [[Heralds#Happy_Heralds|Heralds]] combo and [[Demise/Doom OTK]] decks.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Allure of Darkness]]
 
| The most splashable draw card since Pot of Greed.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Black Whirlwind]]
 
| Fairly similar to the Forbidden card [[Card of Safe Return]]. Gives major Hand Advantage to [[Blackwing]] decks. [[Kalut]] Stacking >_>
 
| =, Very Low chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Book of Moon]]
 
| One of the best Anti-Meta cards in the game. With Ignition Effect Priority being revoked, Book of Moon can easily render these monsters harmless and vulnerable by immediately responding to their Summons.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Burial from a Different Dimension]]
 
| Can abuse cards like Mezuki, Plaguespreader Zombie, Necro Gardna, [[Blackwing - Vayu the Emblem of Honor]], etc.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Card Destruction]]
 
| Sets up your Hand and possibly Graveyard. Can mess up, or help out with, the opponent's Hand, but can also set up their Graveyard. Works very well with [[Dark World]] and [[Fabled]].
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Charge of the Light Brigade]]
 
| It's like [[Reinforcements of the Army|RotA]], but for Lightsworns, and it also mills.
 
| =, Very Low chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Dark Hole]]
 
| Fairly Powerful and with no cost, but then again, [[Starlight Road]] makes it harder to play.
 
| =, Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Foolish Burial]]
 
| Lots of decks rely on the Graveyard a lot. Works well with [[Wulf, Lightsworn Beast]], [[Plaguespreader Zombie]], etc.
 
| =, Low chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Future Fusion]]
 
| Gives Fusion Monsters a chance. However it can be abused and used as a Foolish Burial x(2+). It can also OTK with Overload Fusion.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Gateway of the Six]]
 
| Can gain counters when Six Samurai monsters are Normal and Special Summoned (sounds hard, right?). With the introduction of [[Legendary Six Samurai]] monsters that can Special Summon themselves, and the ability for Gateway to remove from ''anywhere'' on your side of the field, 2 or more of these would result in constant searching of Six Samurai monsters for every Summon.
 
| =, Low Chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Heavy Storm]]
 
| This on first turn is usually catastrophic for the opponent, and not everyone manages to set [[Starlight Road]] on their first turn. However, it also prevents the "Set everything on first turn" game strategies.
 
| =, Low Chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Infernity Launcher]]
 
| It may seem like a +1, but with [[Infernity Archfiend]], a very deadly +lots loop can be made.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Limiter Removal]]
 
| Easy OTK in [[Machine]] decks.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Mind Control]]
 
| Unlike Change of Heart, you can't attack with or Tribute the monster, but you can still use its effects and it still can removed via a Synchro/Xyz Summon.
 
| =, Low Chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Monster Gate]]
 
| Was used a lot by Turbo and OTK decks. Abusable in [[Hieratic]]s.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Monster Reborn]]
 
| Fast. No cost. Special Summon from either Graveyard. Further punishes the opponent if you manage to destroy a strong monster they control (e.g. [[Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning]]).
 
| =, Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[One for One]]
 
| Formerly abused in [[Frog OTK]], [[Mind Master]] OTK, and Plant Synchro. Now that [[Substitoad]], Mind Master, and Glow-Up Bulb and Spore are Forbidden, only [[Infernity Mirage]] and [[Mystic Piper]] needs to be hit before this can come back to assist slower decks like [[Morphtronic]]s and [[Fortune Ladies]].
 
| Low Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Pot of Avarice]]
 
| Recycles the graveyard while adding draw power. Really good in certain decks, recycling cards like [[Reborn Tengu]], Gadgets, Wind-Ups, etc. Plants abused this card, but the March 2012 lists killed Plant Synchro.
 
| Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Primal Seed]]
 
| As long as an Envoy is here, this must be at 1 to prevent loops, in particular, [[OTK]] and [[FTK]] loops:<br>
 
2 Primal Seed + Macro Cosmos/Banisher of the Radiance + Anything you want to reuse indefinitely = win<br>
 
For example a FTK would be: On your first turn, you Hand Destruction 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK. Then Special Summon the Envoy. Then Normal Summon Banisher of the Radiance. Now, activate [[Sparks]], activate Primal Seed to get Sparks and 1 of the Banished cards, activate the same Sparks, activate Primal Seed to get Primal Seed and Sparks and repeat for Sparks FTK!!!<br>
 
You can do this with any Effect Damage cards, or things like Limiter Removal, Rush Recklessly, etc.
 
| =, unless Envoy banned again
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Reasoning]]
 
| Was used a lot by Turbo and OTK decks. Free Monster or easily dumps Monster to Graveyard, both can be beneficial.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Reinforcement of the Army]]
 
| Too broad. This card adds additional speed to many Decks, like [[Lightsworns]], [[Six Samurai]], HEROs, Ninjas, Inzektors (grabs Dark Grepher or Armageddon Knight), and Infernities (for the same reason as Inzektors). If some of those decks became less powerful, this could go to 2.
 
| =, Low chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Scapegoat]]
 
| Stalls quite a bit. However, there are more cards that [[Pierce]] now. Allows for the Synchro Summoning of almost any Synchro. Was part of the [[Goat Control]] deck, but most of the key cards of that deck are either Limited or Forbidden.
 
| Low chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Ceasefire]]
 
| Possibly the best burn card in the game.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Return from the Different Dimension]]
 
| OTK decks use this. If you Special Summon [[Jinzo]], along with many strong monsters, then you've basically won.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Magical Explosion]]
 
| See [[Magical Explosion FTK]]
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Mirror Force]]
 
| Solid game changer. However, now that [[Starlight Road]] and [[The Huge Revolution is Over|THRIO]] are out, you need to be more careful when using this card.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Solemn Judgment]]
 
| Halving your LP to activate a card is very fair (If you're winning, you pay more; if you're losing, you pay less), but to negate nearly anything...
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[The Transmigration Prophecy]]
 
| OCG stall decks use this with [[D.D. Borderline]]. Also, it must be at 1 otherwise this card will just return another copy of itself and a loop will be created. [[Pot of Benevolence]] does the same thing, but that can't be chained to an effect, and that removes itself so it can't return another copy of itself.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Wall of Revealing Light]]
 
| Facing three in an Exodia Deck with LP recovery would be a real pain. It should stay Limited unless we get more bounce/destroy cards. Also abusable with [[Last Turn]], which is banned. See also: [[Magical Explosion FTK]].
 
| =
 
|-
 
! style="font-size: 150%; background-color:black;" colspan=3 class="mainheader" |[[Semi-Limited|<span style="color:white;">Semi-Limited</span>]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Archlord Kristya]]
 
| Strong ATK, seals Special Summons, and is difficult to get rid of since it goes back to the top of the Deck instead of the Graveyard.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Card Trooper]]
 
| Can be a good beatstick for 1 turn. Sets up the Graveyard for many decks. When it dies, you draw 1, so no advantage lost. [[Machine Duplication]] can be used, so at max, it can be at 2. 3 is not likely, but not impossible.
 
| =, almost certain
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Destiny Hero - Malicious]]
 
| His effect can't be used if at 1. If at 3, the advantages will be too high (especially with Synchro Summons) so...
 
| =, almost certain
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier]]
 
| There's an OTK loop with [[Symbol of Heritage]] and [[Mass Driver]]; if you have 3 Dewloren's in the Graveyard. The banning of Mass Driver made that OTK loop impossible. There is still another OTK which involves Symbol of Heritage, which is definitely not going to be Limited, so this will be hit instead. Call of the Haunted can also be recycled with this card.
 
| =, definitely
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner]]
 
| Easy effect that special summons a "[[Lightsworn]]" monster from the graveyard. Gives uses to cards that are useless in the hand (e.g. [[Wulf, Lightsworn Beast]]). Nice mill effect. Lightsworns were very inconsistent, so it made sense to give them a boost.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Marshmallon]]
 
| Relatively hard to kill. Instantly inflicts 1000 damage, which is quite a lot. However, [[Spirit Reaper]] went back to 3, so it seems inevitable that this will go back to 3 also.
 
| =, Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Necro Gardna]]
 
| Easily used in [[Lightsworns]], and with [[Burial from a Different Dimension]] (however, this is Limited).
 
| =, Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Reborn Tengu]]
 
| Replaces itself when it leaves the field. Doesn't care about being [[Banish]]ed. Abusable in Synchro decks. Similar to [[Destiny HERO - Malicious]], which is also at 2. However, is a shocker because it is the first TCG Exclusive to show up on the banlist (not counting [[Allure of Darkness]], which was an emergency Semi-Limit).
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Summoner Monk]]
 
| Great searcher. Monk → Monk → Cat = Pwn, but with [[Rescue Cat|Cat]] now Forbidden, this combo doesn't work any more. He's a Spellcaster, so [[Arcanite Magician]] can be Synchro Summoned. Easy Rank 4 Xyz Monster, maybe Konami is promoting people to buy Xyz Monsters.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Tragoedia]]
 
| Stops OTK <u>AND</u> has other good effects, maybe Konami is promoting people to buy Xyz Monsters.
 
| =, Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Chain Strike]]
 
| Key card of Chain Burn decks such as [[Burn#Chain_Strike_OTK|Chain Strike OTK]].
 
| =, Low Chance of ↓
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Destiny Draw]]
 
| Works very well with [[Destiny Hero - Malicious]]. Was a semi-universal draw engine, however not used as much now.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Emergency Teleport]]
 
| With [[Mind Master]] gone and Tele-DAD dead, it's only fair that this goes to 2 to help [[Psychic]] decks.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Level Limit - Area B]]
 
| Excellent stalling device for no cost, effectively locking out most Decks that use lots of high-level monsters. However, it does not affect Xyz Monsters, and Konami is promoting people to buy them. Similar to [[Gravity Bind]], which went back to 3.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Magical Stone Excavation]]
 
| Allows quick reuse of major Spell Cards. Its heavy cost is often circumvented in [[Diamond Dude Turbo]] Decks.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Royal Tribute]]
 
| Particularly disruptive when used on the very first turn, leaving one vulnerable and unable to retrieve what has been lost because of [[Necrovalley]].
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Shien's Smoke Signal]]
 
| Maybe Konami felt that they over-hit Six Sams with the September 2011 lists. Grabs key Samurais like [[Legendary Six Samurai - Kageki|Kageki]]. Seems like an odd boost for Sams after they just won a YCS.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Swords of Revealing Light]]
 
| Stalls for quite a long time. You can still attack while the opponent cannot. With Xyz Monsters making Level Limit and Gravity Bind less useful, why not?
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Bottomless Trap Hole]]
 
| Very powerful 1 for 1 card. Removes the monster upon Summon. Staple. With the removal of Ignition Priority in the OCG (and removal pending for the TCG), this card has gotten even better.
 
| =, Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Magic Cylinder]]
 
| Negates an attack and inflicts major burn damage. Finishing move. Moved off the Limited List, perhaps, to discourage OTKs via a monster with high ATK.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Mind Crush]]
 
| 1 for 1 card. You don't really need to be a psychic to use this card, as you can easily call a card name after the opponent has used a search/retrieval effect, like [[Salvage]], [[Machina Gearframe]], [[Gadgets]], etc. Allows you to see opponent's hand. Also, this card owns [[Ritual]] Monsters, when the activate their [[Ritual Spell Card]], chain this and call the name of their Monster; a 2 for 1. Can be one-sided in [[Dark World]]/[[Fabled]].
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Ojama Trio]]
 
| Clogs the field with nigh-unusable Tokens, though if a Tuner is present they can be removed via a [[Synchro Summon]].
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Torrential Tribute]]
 
| Most likely brought to 2 to hurt decks that swarm like [[Inzektor]]s and [[Wind-Up]]s. Punishes over-extending, and can easily be stopped with [[Starlight Road]] and [[The Huge Revolution is Over|THRIO]] in most situations.
 
| Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Solemn Warning]]
 
| A lot of effects that Special Summon are present in the game. 2000 LP is almost always worth breaking a loop that would otherwise generate several large monsters. Even though [[Bottomless Trap Hole]] is arguably more powerful with Ignition Priority being revoked, this card can still counter loops that use monsters which Bottomless cannot hit.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Ultimate Offering]]
 
| Free [[Xyz]]. Gadgets swarm Rank 4 Xyz like mad.
 
| -
 
|-
 
! style="font-size: 150%; background-color:black;" colspan=3 class="mainheader" |[[Unlimited|<span style="color:white;">Unlimited</span>]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Abyss Soldier]]
 
| Semi Limited from April '05 to Sept '05 due to its abuse with [[Sinister Serpent]], allowing free bouncing, once per turn. After Sinister Serpent got Forbidden, this came off the list.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Apprentice Magician]]
 
| With [[Magician of Faith]] limited, people used this card to search her. Nephthys Decks also used her to search [[Hand of Nephthys]] to quickly summon [[Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys]]. Then this card came off as Magician of Faith became banned. The Apprentice Magician / [[Old Vindictive Magician]] [[Monarch]] combo didn't really contribute to it's initial semi-limitation.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#CCCCCC;"
 
| [[Black Rose Dragon]]
 
| Universal Nuke. See also, [[Debris-Hime]] deck.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Breaker the Magical Warrior]]
 
| Back when it was banned/limited, +1 cards were overpowered, Breaker lets you destroy a card almost for free and you'll still have a monster; or you could leave it as a 1900 Beatstick which is quite a lot at the time.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Chaos Sorcerer]]
 
| Can be Special Summoned easily, good effect. However, relatively low ATK.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Cyber Dragon]]
 
| Can be Special Summoned easily. Good ATK. Usable in many decks. However, there are increasing amounts of new decks that can Special Summon "a bunch of monsters in one turn", so older decks need this. Also, the opponent can use [[Chimeratech Fortress Dragon]] against you if you're using machines as well (e.g. Morphtronics, Salvo, Gadgets).
 
| =, Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[D.D. Assailant]]
 
| Back when this was initially hit, [[Warrior#Warrior_Toolbox_Deck|Warrior Toolbox]] decks were Tier 1.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[D.D. Warrior Lady]]
 
| Same as D.D. Assailant (above). Also, this card had the option of removing the monster, or not to remove the monster. This card also doesn't need to be destroyed by battle to remove the opponent's monster, just battling it will do, hence why this came off the list a while after Assailant.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#6666FF;"
 
| [[Demise, King of Armageddon]]
 
| See [[Demise/Doom OTK]]. The lack of such Decks in the meta, however, resulted in this card coming off the list.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Exiled Force]]
 
| Same as D.D. Assailant (above).
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Goblin Zombie]]
 
| Very good searcher. In a Zombie deck, it can be more abusable than Sangan or Witch of the Black Forest because of their revival power. Not many people would use 3 anyways.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Green Baboon]]
 
| Before, it was allowed to be Special Summoned when a Beast was destroyed by battle or by a card effect. This was rather good with a relatively low cost for high ATK. Now, they changed the ruling and it can't be used during the Damage Step, so destroying by battle won't Trigger its effect.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Green Gadget]]
 
|rowspan="3"| Gadget decks used to top frequently, but aren't as powerful as they once were. Most decks wouldn't run more than 2 of each nowadays.
 
|rowspan="3"| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Red Gadget]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Yellow Gadget]]
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Injection Fairy Lily]]
 
| She was considered to be too fast and too strong for the format at the time. Now there are decks other than beatdown types, so this came off.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Jinzo]]
 
| Very popular early in the game's history since the game was slow enough to allow for monsters to be Tribute Summoned. Then the metagame picked up speed, where Special Summons became more favourable, and Jinzo dwindled in popularity due to both [[Royal Decree]] and presence of better monsters to Special Summon. [[Naturia Bamboo Shoot]] is also a Tribute monster, but it also stops Spells and not just Traps, although it is less splashable.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Manticore of Darkness]]
 
| There is an OTK with this card (but it's too inconsistent with the current format), and it worked well with [[Card of Safe Return]] (now banned).
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Marauding Captain]]
 
| Same as D.D. Assailant (above).
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Dark Scorpion - Chick the Yellow]]
 
| This + [[Makyura the Destructor|Makyura]] + [[Call of the Haunted]] = OTK, but Makyura is now banned and this card is bad.
 
| =, certain
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Mask of Darkness]]
 
| Well, Royal Oppression became Limited when this became Unlimited, not that anyone was using this card anyway.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Judgment Dragon]]
 
| Can be Special Summoned easily. Low cost to nuke the Field except itself. 3000 ATK. Double JD is just broken, especially when they can be returned to your hand with Beckoning Light. However, in the OCG with the new Priority ruling change, the increase of anti-Special Summon of high level/LIGHT (chaos) cards, and Lightsworns not topping much might have been the reason to unlimit this. Consensus seems to say this card should be banned, and Lumina should be unlimited instead.
 
| Chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Light and Darkness Dragon]]
 
| See [[Perfect Circle]]. Not as abusable now that Tribute Summoning is considered slow.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Morphing Jar 2]]
 
| A very potent field-disrupter, freezing the battle phase and eating up [[Nomi]]s and [[Tribute]] monsters the moment it was flipped. This is probably why it was Semi, until '05 when destroying monsters with effects became more popular than battle, giving a very good way to circumvent its [[Flip Effect]]. It probably disappeared off the meta then, and so went back to unlimited.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Phantom of Chaos]]
 
| Formerly abused in [[Sky Scourge Norleras]] decks. Once those decks stopped doing well, this was allowed to go back to 3.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Protector of the Sanctuary]]
 
| Formerly abused with things like [[Time Seal]] and [[Yata-Garasu]] as an additional layer of insurance for such a lock since the opponent could only break the lock by drawing with a card effect. Time Seal and Yata-Garasu soon got banned, leaving no reason to limit Protector of the Sanctuary.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Raiza the Storm Monarch]]
 
| Raiza was overused in Monarch decks, and that was Tier 1. Caius was released, along with other faster decks so this was let off. Caius is now considered to be better anyways.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Reflect Bounder]]
 
| At the time they limited this, [[Chaos]] decks were Tier 1. The [[Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning|Env]][[Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End|oys]] were also banned as this time, but they realized that this didn't really need to be hit as hitting the Envoys were enough, so this later this came off.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys]]
 
| At the time when it was Limited, destruction by effects were the metagame, especially with Gadget Decks using this to its fullest. Nephthys could come back persistently, destroying backrow at the same time. Then the metagame picked up speed with both Chainable Traps and Removal Decks becoming more popular, and use of Nephthys died down.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Snipe Hunter]]
 
| Formerly abused in Gadget Decks due to massive hand advantage to fuel its effect. The lack of Gadget Decks around resulted in it coming off the list.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Spirit Reaper]]
 
| Can't be destroyed by battle, but unlike Marshmallon, it destroys itself the moment it is Targeted. Its other effect is great, except against Dark World; guess what theme the <u>new</u> Structure Deck was.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Twin-Headed Behemoth]]
 
| [[Monarch]] decks used to run 3 at the time, keeping a monster to Tribute on the field whether it was destroyed by battle or by a card effect. Then a new ruling was made: "''The effect of "Twin-Headed Behemoth" can only be used ONCE throughout the entirety of the Duel. Even if your Deck includes three copies of the card, between those three copies the effect can only be used once, not once each.''" This card became unlimited after that ruling was released, and Monarchs then received [[Treeborn Frog]] and that replaced this card, even if the ruling wasn't made.
 
| =, certain
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Treeborn Frog]]
 
| Yes it's a free Tribute, but you can only activate 1 anyway. So limiting isn't going to do much. Semi-Limit is still OK because the new removal cards tend to remove 2 at once.
 
| =, Low chance of ↑
 
|- style="background-color:#FF8B53;"
 
| [[Vampire Lord]]
 
| See Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys (above).
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Book of Taiyou]]
 
| Formerly abused in Empty Jar Decks to force the activation of [[Cyber Jar]] and [[Morphing Jar 2]].
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Creature Swap]]
 
| Formerly considered too strong for the meta back when there weren't as many removal cards.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Emergency Provisions]]
 
| Formerly abused with [[Mirage of Nightmare]], which is now banned.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Fissure]]
 
| A 'one for one' card that was rarely used outside of Gadget decks, and faster decks that could cope were made, so this came off.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Gold Sarcophagus]]
 
| Adds any card from your deck to your Hand. Removes the card face-up. However takes 2 turns before the card actually gets to your Hand, which is rather slow.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Lightning Vortex]]
 
| Limited due to abuse with [[Sinister Serpent]] for cheap frying of the opponent's face-up monsters. It still saw some abuse since there were 2 [[Night Assailant]]s still on the list. It finally came off the Limited status after Night Assailant hit 1 on the next list.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Mage Power]]
 
| Was considered too strong back when beatsticks won duels on their own. Equip cards are considered slow now and [[Mystical Space Typhoon|they most likely]] [[Heavy Storm|won't stick around.]]
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Megamorph]]
 
| Doubling original ATK can be a lot, sometimes enough to OTK. The drawback of halving when you have more LPs isn't too bad either as you can equip it to your opponent's monsters. Also, Equip Spells are still bad and have gotten worse now that we have 3 MSTs.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Mystical Space Typhoon]]
 
| Fast. Staple. 1 for 1 card.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Overload Fusion]]
 
| Back then, [[Future Fusion]] and [[Chimeratech Overdragon]] combo provided a large beatstick, nowadays, beatsticks don't mean as much. Also, Future Fusion is Limited anyways.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Smashing Ground]]
 
| [[Fissure]] became Unlimited in the format before this came down, so this followed.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[United We Stand]]
 
| Yes it makes monsters into bigger beatsticks, but with so many cards to stop it... (e.g. [[Book of Moon]], [[Dimensional Prison]], etc.)
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#1D9E74;"
 
| [[Upstart Goblin]]
 
| Back then, [[Exodia_OTK#Makyura.27s_Exodia|Makyura Exodia]] decks were everywhere. Then they realised that Makyura was the thing that needed to be banned.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Call of the Haunted]]
 
| Must fairer speed when compared to its Spell counterparts. Can't be abused multiple times per turn (unlike [[Premature Burial]]). Can only special summon from your own graveyard (unlike [[Monster Reborn]]). Like Magic Cylinder, top decks didn't play this card much, so it was probably dropped for the same reason. Most people who use it wouldn't use 3.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Icarus Attack]]
 
| Powerful Chainable 2 for 2 card, which made Blackwings lethal. Now that they aren't topping much, and with Heavy Storm and 3 MSTs, this could come back down.
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Drop Off]]
 
| This got limited at the same time Time Seal initially got banned. Then they realised that stopping a Draw is completely different than discarding the drawn card, with decks which use the graveyard more often, and being a 'one for one' card, this came off.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Good Goblin Housekeeping]]
 
| Back then, this Draw power was extremely good. It's bad now.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Gravity Bind]]
 
| Stalls a lot, but Konami is promoting people to buy Xyz Monsters, which aren't affected by it (Rank =/= Level). See also Level Limit - Area B (above).
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Reckless Greed]]
 
| People wanted to stack these cards together... then was unlimited again when fair shuffling techniques were enforced. JK, see why Upstart Goblin (above) was limited.
 
| =
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Royal Decree]]
 
| 1 card to <u>continuously</u> stop a large amount of cards. Works well in [[Herald]] decks to prevent the activation of [[Counter Trap Cards]].
 
| -
 
|- style="background-color:#BC5A84;"
 
| [[Skill Drain]]
 
| 1 card to <u>continuously</u> stop a large amount of cards. Works well with cards such as [[Beast King Barbaros]]. See also: [[Skill Drain Deck]]
 
| -
 
|}
 
</center>
 
  
 
: '''In case someone somehow missed it. Click "Show" on the right side of the bar.'''
 
: '''In case someone somehow missed it. Click "Show" on the right side of the bar.'''
Line 822: Line 15:
 
: '''This list can also assist people before posting a prediction on the next banlist.'''
 
: '''This list can also assist people before posting a prediction on the next banlist.'''
 
: '''Please help out by pointing out changes that should be made in the list (if any) (please include reasons).'''
 
: '''Please help out by pointing out changes that should be made in the list (if any) (please include reasons).'''
: '''Keep in mind that the TCG banlist is exactly the same as the OCG banlist (minus the OCG exclusives). So, reasons should be based on the OCG rulings.''' (adding a note to those would be appreciated, something like the one on Victory Dragon.)
+
:  
 
: And for those who are wondering. No, I didn't make this list recently. It been on 2 other forums before. This is the most updated version of it as the other 2 aren't being updated.
 
: And for those who are wondering. No, I didn't make this list recently. It been on 2 other forums before. This is the most updated version of it as the other 2 aren't being updated.
 
:: See also: [[Historic Forbidden/Limited Chart]]. {{User:Falzar_FZ/Sig}} 07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)<br>
 
:: See also: [[Historic Forbidden/Limited Chart]]. {{User:Falzar_FZ/Sig}} 07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)<br>
Line 829: Line 22:
  
 
= Discussion =
 
= Discussion =
{{ArchiveList}}
 
  
== September 2011 ==
+
{| border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" style="width: 500px"
 
+
|'''Archives:'''
[http://yugioh.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:List_of_Reasons_for_why_cards_are_Currently_Banned&curid=230176&diff=1576435&oldid=1553195 Updated] for Sept'11 list. Was less accurate this time due to lack of update since Xyz Monsters being released, Konami wanting to promote Xyz Monsters (a lot), and a few things that no one expected anyways.<br>
+
|[[Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited/Archive 1|1]]
Wanted to see more ideas and reasons before updating it, which is why I didn't update earlier. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 13:44, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
+
|[[Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited/Archive 2|2]]
 
+
|[[Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited/Archive 3|3]]
: A lot of cards were removed. Where's [[Scapegoat]]?{{User:BobaFett2/sig2}}
+
|[[Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited/Archive 4|4]]
 
+
|[[Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited/Archive 5|Current discussion page.]]
: Under Harpie's Feather Duster, it still mentions Heavy Storm as being banned. <u> [[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]] </u> 13:53, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
+
|}
 
 
:: A lot were moved.
 
:: I was sure I copy pasted Scapegoat before changing one of them to Smoke Signal.
 
:: Fixed both, ty. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 14:00, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
Also, MST is still listed as Limited. <u> [[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]] </u> 14:01, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Fixed; you can feel free to fix any obvious errors like those if you want to. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 14:05, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
::K. Didn't see anymore, though. <u> [[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]] </u> 14:08, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
[[Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En]] was listed as an Effect Monster. I fixed it (it's now listed as Synchro). <i>[[User:Samurai_Bruxo|<font color="#FF0000" face="Arial" size="2">Samurai Bruxo</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Samurai Bruxo|<font color="#0000FF" face="Arial" size="1">Discussão/Talk</font>]]</sup></i> 00:00, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 
:"[[T.G. Hyper Librarian]]" was also listed as an Effect Monster (fixed now). <i>[[User:Samurai_Bruxo|<font color="#FF0000" face="Arial" size="2">Samurai Bruxo</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Samurai Bruxo|<font color="#0000FF" face="Arial" size="1">Discussão/Talk</font>]]</sup></i> 00:06, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
Future Fusion says that Overload is limited--[[User:Gabriel 95|絶望]] ([[User talk:Gabriel 95|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gabriel 95|contribs]]) 03:56, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Fixed. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 03:59, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
ummm Infernity Launcher is on the list twice?  Is it so deadly it had to be Limited twice xD [[User:Neon Rider|Neon Rider]] ([[User talk:Neon Rider|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Neon Rider|contribs]]) 21:05, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I took care of it. -- ''<font color="#FFA500"> <u>  [[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]] </u> </font>''  21:17, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
== why ==
 
 
 
why is rescue cat still banned when youstill have to deal with rescue cat which is much much worse [[User:Killerman3333|Killerman3333]] ([[User talk:Killerman3333|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Killerman3333|contribs]]) 00:23, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 
:::::::::::I think you mean [[Rescue Rabbit]] and I disagree rescue cat was waaayyy worse [[User:Mrbiff|Mrbiff]] ([[User talk:Mrbiff|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mrbiff|contribs]]) 01:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC) mrbiff
 
 
 
We have two Summoner Monks, and any amount of Monks is too much when Cat's around. In addition to that, even without Dark Strike Fighter and Goyo, we still have Brionac, Orient, Arcanite, and Black Rose. In addition to that, there's other new combo possibilities with Tanngnjostr.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 13:41, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Pretty much that can kill the game with Rescue Cat. But not only Synchro, he can affect Xyz too - Overlaying Rank 1 to 3, yes, you can give Rank 1 extra boost with "[[Turbo Booster]]". "Rescue Rabbit" is little cheaper version, only increased level by 1 (up to Level 4 only) with using once per turn and cannot get two different monster (no u, Cyber Dragon/Proto-Cyber Dragon!) onto the field at same time. --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation/Memoir_(disambiguation)|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 14:40, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 
::Oye, FredCat. You also forgot that Rescue Rabbit's targets must be a Normal monster. That's another important detail when comparing it with Cat. [[Special:Contributions/75.49.10.81|75.49.10.81]] ([[User talk:75.49.10.81|talk]]) 16:20, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 
(In regards to BobaFett2's comment) "Brionic" I think is going to get banned soon. I mean there are some crazy combos you can pull/abuse with it (you have to admit, it is a pretty strong effect monster for a level 6 Synchro, and is capable of getting almost any card off the field. To add to this, the effect can be used over and over again). [[User:Shardsilver|Shardsilver]] ([[User talk:Shardsilver|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Shardsilver|contribs]]) 15:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
two cards that should '''NOT''' be forbidden are choas emperor dragon - envoy of the end and dimension fusion. first chaos emepror dragon because his summon could be negated essaily with cards such as solemn judgment bottomless trap hole and many others. plus black luster solier is no longer forbidden and it has just as good an effect as the eperor dragon and just as much atk power and just as many brilliant conbos as the emeror dragon so its realy not that fair that one is forbidden and one is not.
 
now on to dimension fusion in the list it states that there was to much abuse with dark armed dragon and i would like to say that due to dark armed dragons effect you wuold need to send alot of dark monsters to the grave first and have dark armed dragon all ready in your hand to even summon him and have dimension fusion in your hand to complete this conbo and it would cost 2000 life points as well and your opponent could summon his banished monsters which '''could''' stop the otk plus your opponent '''could''' have something on the feild to already to stop and destroy all your monsters or negate the damage or deflect the damage back at you. as for other conbos with dimension fusion. again your opponent '''could''' have there own conbo which could result in your move backfireing on your self. this could be probebly eassialy done with the fact that they are maing even more powerful cards that can be eassialy used against your opponent.
 
personaly i feel there should be no forbidden list at all because it sucks the fun out of the game and if you belive you are a good duelist and if you are as good as you think you are then they should not have some stuiped list hold any one back from showing there full potential in the game. {{unsigned|2.220.93.49}}
 
 
 
Seroiously? You lack a good understanding of how this stuff works. Negation is not always possible. You may not draw the cards, they could negate them or get rid of them before you use them. CED is insane due to the fact that drawing it allows you to clear the field and both player's hands then burn your opponent. With cards like Reborn Tengu rampant this allows for so many combos. Likewise, Dimension Fusion is just too good for a number of reasons. In addition to that, if there were no banlist, Makyura Exchange of the Spirit FTK would be the single Tier 1 deck - in fact, it would probably be called Tier 0 or even -1 simply because it's so broken.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 21:39, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
>my face when someone thinks preventing broken combos = holding back potential [[User:Lord Grammaticus|Lord Grammaticus]] ([[User talk:Lord Grammaticus|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lord Grammaticus|contribs]]) 21:44, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
i agree that negation is not always possible but all the same you can not say that there is more chance of you drawing a great hand than your opponent drawing cards that would negate your move. both hand have equal chance of being drawn and when i wrote that stuff about negation i put the word could in bold because it implys the possibility of negation and if your opponent trys to negate your negation then whats to say that you dont negate there negation stratigy. and as for dimension fusion there are cards just as good such as return from the diffrent dimension. the only thing that makes dimension fusion better is the fact that with return from the diffrent dimension any monster summoned with its effect is banished at the end phase not that it realy
 
matters because by the end phase the damage would be done. and if dark armed dragons so powerful why not put it on the banned list. and as for the banned list i agree that cards like exchange of the spirit and others would be difficult to beat but i was simply giving my opinion and saying that i would like to test how good i am when me and my opponent have no limitations or restrictions in the game. {{unsigned|2.220.93.49}}
 
 
 
And then you watch as you opponent wipes you out within the first turn. Something you don't realize is that when we say "broken", we are talking about the existence of combos that can win a game in 90+% of situations (I've seen one that's basically a guaranteed win, in fact). '''The point:''' You can't test skill properly in a format where everyone's using decks that reduce your chances of winning to the point where you basically have to ''hope'' that luck is on your side - and even then, it's never a sure thing. Why bother testing your potential against something that'll almost always kill you or else put the duel well out of your control ''instantly''?
 
 
 
Plus, regarding Dark Armed Dragon: It has a relatively specific Summon condition, meaning you can't throw it into every Deck ever like most of the banned cards and expect it to work right. [[User:Lord Grammaticus|Lord Grammaticus]] ([[User talk:Lord Grammaticus|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lord Grammaticus|contribs]]) 00:28, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
yea ok and whats to stop me winning the game in the first turn because what you dont realize is that if evry one would be aloud cards that are needed for these broken conbos is that every one would have an equal chance of drawing such conbos.
 
and another thing you dont realize is that this game '''is''' a game of luck. you just have to make the best out of what you have got in your hand and if your opponent does have a winning stratigy then there is nothing you can do about it and there are plenty of stratigys that result in an instant win with out the use of forbidden cards. and both players have an equal chance of exicuting these stratigys and winning. so you can test skill properly in a format where everyone's using decks that reduce your chances of winning because your using just as powerful cards as they are wtich there for means that their chances of winning are reduced as well.
 
also CED also has pretty specific summoning conditions meaning that you can't just throw it into evry deck as well. and if you have enough dark monsters in your graveyard you could clear your opponents feild reativitly eassily with dark armed dragon's effect and dark armed dragon is only like 200 atk points weaker that CED plus dark armed dragon stays on the field when it use's it's effect plus CED costs 1000 of your own life points to use its effect so CED burns you too.
 
 
 
I really don't think you understand how this game works.
 
 
 
First of all, if everyone had the same exact cards, that'd take a '''lot''' of actual skill out of the equation. Yes, this is a game of luck, but not ''exclusively''. With the ever changing banlist, you have to be able to construct a deck that has a good chance of winning without relying on cards that are gamebreakers on their own, as well as know how the pieces fit together when constructing said Deck. There has to be room for other Decks to be viable, and the broken cards allowed in Traditional Format aren't quite conducive to that process.
 
 
 
And the problem with your analysis of CED is this - all it needs is ''at least'' one Light and Dark monster (compared to DAD, which needs exactly 3 Dark monsters in the grave). While this doesn't make it splashable per se, it's still a rather easy Summon. Also, your statement that CED burns you is wrong - 1000LP is a ''cost'', not damage, and it's often more than worth it considering the amount of damage AND the options you have for wrecking your opponent afterward - like having Sangan/Witch on the field before paying, which means you're ensured at least one free monster, and if that monster is Yata-Garasu, you're done.
 
 
 
The ban list exists to prevent the overuse of certain cards and promote use of other strategies - not to "hold players back", as you've been ridiculous enough to mention. [[User:Lord Grammaticus|Lord Grammaticus]] ([[User talk:Lord Grammaticus|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lord Grammaticus|contribs]]) 19:36, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
and i think that you must be one of those people who thinks that if there were no forbidden list then every one '''would''' use the same cards witch '''would''' take skill out of the equation. how ever you seem to fail at realising the odds of you completeing said stratigy are slim. and there ''''''are''' other cards''' that '''can''' prevent this conbo being used with cards '''like''' prohibitation, tyrants tirade, prime material dragon, consecrated light, solemn judgement and solemn warrning witch would prevent CED's effect or summon and you '''could''' have a sangan/witch of your own when CED's effect is activated. however you '''do''' need to take luck into the equation meaning that you have just as much chance getting cards like the ones i listed as your opponent does of getting CED, sangan or the witch of the black forest on their side of the field.
 
 
 
also it would be just as easy to get three dark monsters in the graveyard as it would to get one light and dark monster in the graveyard. and even if the 1000 life points for CED is a cost you still lose 1000 life points meaning that theres not much diffrence between cost and damage.
 
also even if there was no banned list you could still construct a deck that has a good chance of winning any way. and if there was overuse of certain cards then surly players would be encouaged to create and promote new stratiges to defeat said cards that are being overused resulting in pushing players forward.
 
this is something that you have clearly been stupid enough to over look.
 
 
 
Actually, Konami had a time without a banlist. Every player used the same damn deck(s). Same thing happened with Tele-DAD - when there is a single deck that almost always beats every other deck every other time, everyone's going to use it.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 14:13, January 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
fair enough if konami did have a time without a banlist and if evry player did use the same deck then the banlist should not be completely removed. they should just put down on the list cards that are just to powerful and realy do give an unfair advantage such as temple of the kings, exchange of the spirit or all 5 peices of exodia but cards like CED dimension fusion or even pot of greed is just stupid its not like these cards are hard to beat and even if cards like them are just limited i would'nt care. but half the cards on the forbidden list just have a slightly better effect or more atk than other cards and there are cards that are unlimited and have way better effects than half the cards on the forbidden list. so not every card should be removed from the banlist but the cards they do put on should be put on for a good reason.
 
 
 
Getting '''exactly''' 3 dark monsters is not as easy having a light and dark monster in he grave. The exactly 3 dark monsters is very restrcting and more situatonal, you can have any number of light and dark monsters in the grave which makes the chaos monsters far easier to ummon than dark armed dragon. The 1000 life point cost is fixed, whereas the burn damage of chaos emperor dragon will almost always be above 3000. Chaos emperor dragon clears the enire field and hands , not just 3 cards like dark armed dragon.
 
 
 
 
 
[[User:Matthew Lightbody|[email protected]]] ([[User talk:Matthew Lightbody|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthew Lightbody|contribs]]) 19:01, January 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
 
 
ok. i understand what your getting at with dark armed dragon and CED however i stand by what i wrote about it being just as eassy getting 3 dark monsters in the grave. there are plenty of conbos that could send 3 dark monsters to the grave as eassily as sending 1 light and dark monster to the grave. you could use future fusion or hand destruction with foolish burial. and im sure there are lots of other conbos you could use. also after you get dark armed dragon on the field you '''could''' send more dark monsters to the grave to use his effect to do more damage. where as with CED every thing is destroyed inclueding him self even if your opponent takes more than 3000 damage if your opponent suvives its there turn next so they could draw a card that wipes you out witch could be a possibility as you have lost 1000 life points witch could make all the diffrence. where as with dark armed dragon if you destroy your opponents feild you still have a very powerful monster to defend your life points.
 
 
 
:Good, good, you got 3 DARK monsters in the Grave. Now try to prevent more from accumulating until you draw into Dark Armed. Easy? Doesn't happen all the time. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 02:29, January 2, 2012 (UT
 
 
 
you have missunderstood what i was saying. i was saying that you could get three dark monsters in the grave when you '''also''' have dark armed dragon in your hand. i was not saying send three dark monsters to the grave then wait and hope that you draw dark armed dragon. what i ment was when you have DAD in your hand then get three dark monsters in the grave.
 
 
 
:Still, your Graveyard is more likely to gather more than 3 DARK monsters before you get your DAD, compared to the other way round. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 06:59, January 3, 2012 (
 
 
 
yea ok but what you dont understand is that if you use a deck built around DAD then it's going to be eassy to summon DAD even if your grave does gather more dark monsters.
 
how ever if you use DAD in your deck for whatever reason if your stratigy is to summon DAD then you should already have DAD in your hand or make sure he is going to be in your hand before your graveyard gathers to many dark monsters.
 
 
 
==March 2012==
 
So we now have news on the upcoming banlist. Do we update now, or wait till it actually takes effect? --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 05:53, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I'm assuming we wait until it actually takes effect, for all we known Shriek might be wrong. It's unlikely but possible... And preferred.[[Special:Contributions/121.222.228.13|121.222.228.13]] ([[User talk:121.222.228.13|talk]]) 06:05, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Shouldn't the list be updated? Its march 2th (atleast for me) its supposed to take effect by now [[User:LaserGhost|LG]] [[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] [[User:LaserGhost/Pesronal Guides|My own Guides]] 14:57, March 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I was thinking about doing it but it's Falzar's forum and he usually does it. But, he get's really busy sometimes with other stuff and it's March now so I think I'll take care of it. This most recent list was really out there, so when I type up the reasons for where cards are on the list, it might be biased towards my opinion. So, if anyone ends up disagreeing with what I put, I won't care if they change it. I mostly just want to get it updated. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  19:49, March 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
I don't think [[Glow-Up Bulb]] was hit to hurt plants, I think it was just an indirect hit for them.<br>
 
Hitting it killed the First Turn Quasar [[Future Fusion]] deck that was insanely consistent, without GUB they have no targets to make [[Formula Synchron]] with. <br>
 
So yeah, maybe it wasn't because of Plants considering they weren't exactly top tier for a while, just my thoughts.<br>
 
[[Special:Contributions/123.211.144.181|123.211.144.181]] ([[User talk:123.211.144.181|talk]]) 05:08, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Yeah, but Spore got hit too, so I'm thinking Plants. I'll add the First Turn Quasar thing though. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  05:31, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Random off-topic question - does anybody else think that [[Mirage of Nightmare]] should be changed from "Never" to "Very Low?" Seriously, even [[Yata-Garasu]] is "Very Low." [[Special:Contributions/99.165.192.113|99.165.192.113]] ([[User talk:99.165.192.113|talk]]) 22:41, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I was actually considering it when I was updating this earlier. I could see Mirage coming back at some point. I'm mostly sketchy on the fact that it could make Fableds and DW OP. I would like a little input from other people before changing this one. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  23:33, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Dark Worlds I could see being pretty good with it, I can't see Fableds being that great with it though. Sure it'd give them a boost but they'll need more than a boost to be able to compete with current decks.<br>
 
::And I'm not sure it'd be brought back. Does it help Xyz's at all? Nope. Less chance of it coming back.<br>
 
::[[Special:Contributions/123.211.144.181|123.211.144.181]] ([[User talk:123.211.144.181|talk]]) 01:33, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::I wasn't saying it has a very high likelihood of coming back, but wouldn't you agree it has at more of a chance of coming back than that annoying [[Yata-Garasu|freaking-crow-that-wins-games-on-its-own]]? [[Special:Contributions/99.165.192.113|99.165.192.113]] ([[User talk:99.165.192.113|talk]]) 01:53, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::Probably, but even so, I think a very low is needed at least. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Crimson Joker|<span style="color:Crimson;">Crimson </span><span style="color:Black">Joker</span>]] ([[User_talk:Crimson Joker|<span style="color:DarkSlateBlue;">Talk</span>]])</span> 04:40, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::So, pretty much we agree Very Low for Mirage of Nightmare, correct? --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  09:46, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::::I think that at the very least, nobody is arguing against it. [[Special:Contributions/99.165.192.113|99.165.192.113]] ([[User talk:99.165.192.113|talk]]) 21:11, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Ok, is there anything else on there that anyone thinks should be changed? And also, maybe some discussion on some cards that are marked as "unsure" ( "-" )? --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  23:49, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Maybe [[Metamorphosis]] to "Very Low?" It has too many epic combos (derp, my [[Beast King Barbaros]] becomes [[Cyber Twin Dragon]] and my [[Metal Reflect Slime]] becomes [[Naturia Exterio]]). EDIT: Oh, and [[Formula Synchron]] to "=" I think, it's balanced at one. [[Special:Contributions/99.165.192.113|99.165.192.113]] ([[User talk:99.165.192.113|talk]]) 00:58, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Done and done. I put Formula as =, but with a chance of going ↓. With Glow-Up AND Fishborg gone, it's really not as broken. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  03:08, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::[[Fishborg Blaster]] to "Low?" As it says up there he is quite abusable, but also [[Fishborg Launcher]] was designed to be a nerfed replacement for him. [[Special:Contributions/99.165.192.113|99.165.192.113]] ([[User talk:99.165.192.113|talk]]) 11:18, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::With Laucher replacing Blaster, the odds of Blaster coming back are even slimmer. I'm gonna say Very Low. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  21:16, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Magical scientist should have his reason slightly edited, apart from the FTK he can perform with catapult turtle, he can also summon 4 xyz monsters by itself, which is obviously far too fast for this format.
 
 
 
[[User:Matthew Lightbody|[email protected]]] ([[User talk:Matthew Lightbody|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthew Lightbody|contribs]]) 21:38, March 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I agree with you, and done. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  00:40, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Does anybody else think [[Snatch Steal]] should go to "Never" (sorry, update to end all updates)? IMO it's even worse than [[Change of Heart]] because even though it can't target face-downs to take control of, it offers control as long as it stays on the field, [[Hidden Armory]] can search/recycle it indiscriminately because you don't need to summon during a series of turns where you just steal your opponents monsters, and the opponent LP gain just doesn't matter. [[Special:Contributions/99.162.190.109|99.162.190.109]] ([[User talk:99.162.190.109|talk]]) 15:02, March 17, 2012 (UTC) P.S. - Hey, maybe Konami will errata [[Magical Scientist]] to say "up to twice per turn" and bring him back to promote Xyzs. Probably not.
 
 
 
:lol, I didn't mean it would be the '''last''' update. I meant it as it would be the last mass update for a while. As for Snatch Steal to "Never", I don't agree. 3 MSTs, Heavy Storm, [[Night Shot]] (actually really good), etc. It's just not gonna stay on the field. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  17:32, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Disregard Night Shot, I put that forgetting that it only destroys set S/T. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  17:28, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
: [[Snatch Steal]] is pretty bad. Most of my losses in Duel Academy (I know AI sucks) come from blowing all my cards to get ahead one powerful monster, than losing that monster next turn. While The card can be destroyed quite easily from MST, You should never use the card with the intention of keeping it on the field longer than a turn anyway. The "cost" of increasing your opponents life points is easily negated by saving it until your foe brings out the big guns and smashing him with his own ace. I don't know if Never is overkill, but it won't be coming down anytime soon. It would be balanced if it was limited to level 4 or lower cards maybe.[[User:ZGWolf|ZGWolf]] ([[User talk:ZGWolf|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ZGWolf|contribs]]) 20:29, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::You're absolutely right, it's not coming back soon, and it might never come back. But putting "Never" is definitely overkill. "Never" should be reserved for truly broken/poorly designed cards like [[Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End|CED]], [[Substitoad]], [[Imperial Order]], and [[Victory Dragon]] (because of the way surrendering works in the OCG). --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  21:34, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::Speaking of whom, IIRC, [[Victory Dragon]] is also banned, and never coming back, because you could sidedeck it in 3rd duel, even if you have 2 losses, the duel would be required to be played because it is "possible" that you will win the match, basically wasting everyone's time. [[Special:Contributions/75.58.124.7|75.58.124.7]] ([[User talk:75.58.124.7|talk]]) 21:53, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::I don't think it works like that. If you have 2 losses, you '''lost''' the match and you don't get a chance to side. The match can't continue if a winner has been determined. But, the point is, Victory Dragon is never coming back either way. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  21:58, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::: actually of all the "broken" cards in the game, I think Victory dragon is the most likely to come back. It was a pain in the neck to actually summon, and is actully pretty weak. As wierd as it may sound, I am more afraid of snatch steal than victory dragon. Then again I don't do much  tourneys. Just wondering, were there any cases between release and ban where this card was actually used? Not that I actually want it, it's just really shiny 0_0
 
[[User:ZGWolf|ZGWolf]] ([[User talk:ZGWolf|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ZGWolf|contribs]]) 02:55, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::The reason Victory Dragon will not come back is because of the OCG. In the TCG, when your opponent drops VD, you can just surrender before they can damage you with it, so that they only win the round and not the full match. In the OCG, you may only surrender after the tenth turn. VD is worse now because it can be summoned easier than before. [[Hieratic]]s can drop it in a single turn, and possibly drop you to 0 that turn since they're so OTK oriented. It also may never come back just because it's the only Match Winner that isn't Illegal. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  03:03, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Topic conflict ==
 
 
 
I am now notice the mispurpose of "CURRENTLY BANNED" while there are like Limited and Semi-Limited including those recipes. So why not change the topic to "List of Reasons why cards are on the Currently Banlist" instead of "List of Reason why cards are Currently Banned"? So that can making a sense...? --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 00:49, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Oh, I see what you mean. We're not talking about just the banned stuff, we're talking about Semi-Limited and Limited stuff too, so the title is inaccurate. I agree in all honesty. What about "Reasons why cards are currently restricted" or "Reasons why cards are Banned/Limited"? Which sounds better? I don't think we need to say "List of..." in the title. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  01:04, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::I agree with changing, maybe "Which Cards are Restricted and Why"? [[Special:Contributions/99.162.190.109|99.162.190.109]] ([[User talk:99.162.190.109|talk]]) 01:00, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::This unregistered user has better topic choice - let's go with that! --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 01:02, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::I like it too, but I want a few different ideas out there to choose from before we decide what to change it to. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  01:04, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::Do we need to [[Summon|''invoking'']] some Admins to include some discusses with this? --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 01:10, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::No, we don't ''have'' to. I'm just saying that we should throw a few more ideas out there for the new name. Like maybe "Reasons why cards currently on the Forbidden/Limited list" or something. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  01:14, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::::Ok, but I am still going with the one unregistered user made up, it suit this article better. --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 01:18, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::::I'm thinking about going ahead and changing it now because the current title is just meh. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  17:32, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Trishula ==
 
 
 
Ok why does the reason of trishula say "her"? does trishula honestly look like a female to you? [[User:LaserGhost|LG]] [[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] [[User:LaserGhost/Pesronal Guides|My own Guides]] 15:01, March 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Are you sexist against female dragons then? I'm not sure as to the answer myself, but I've heard Trish getting called "her" by a lot of people... [[Special:Contributions/75.58.122.97|75.58.122.97]] ([[User talk:75.58.122.97|talk]]) 22:21, March 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
::As well as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trishula#Other_uses this article being mentioned "her"] allot. --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 23:17, March 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Most people I know refer to Trishula as a "her". And yes, I do feel that she appears to be female. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  17:07, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
IDK might have to do with the fact that most people refer to the card as "Trish" sounds feminine to me...
 
 
 
Shinkirou 21:45, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
==Scapegoat==
 
I want to discuss this card. I don't understand why it has been limited for so long. Goat Control is beyond dead, and with all of these mass removal effects floating around, it just seems like it's not that great anymore. Sure, you can use it with a Tuner to Synchro for almost anything you want, but Xyz Monsters are taking over anyways. Thoughts? --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  03:02, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
There's enough stall in this game. Soon you'll be able to fill a deck with nothing but stall.<br>
 
[[Special:Contributions/121.222.170.239|121.222.170.239]] ([[User talk:121.222.170.239|talk]]) 22:27, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Most people consider stalling to be a sub-par strategy in this day and age. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  22:32, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
The stall isn't that bad anymore, with more cards that pierce and easier ways to get rid of the tokens. I think the main concern is Synchros, so maybe it could have a chance of semi-limit now that Konami has smacked our best tuners and Synchro monsters. Personally, I'm perfectly fine with it at one though. [[Special:Contributions/75.58.122.97|75.58.122.97]] ([[User talk:75.58.122.97|talk]]) 22:31, March 28, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Agreed. I could see it going to 2, since it wouldn't really affect the game. I'll put it as Low chance of getting less restricted I think. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  06:43, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: and there are much more piercing monsters now. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 07:44, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::Just because there are more doesn't mean people run them. How many piercing monsters do you run? I don't think I run any in any deck I play.
 
:::If that was a good enough reason to bring back cards:
 
:::There's many ways to destroy monsters, [[Yata-Garasu]] and [[Goyo Guardian]] should come back.
 
:::There's many ways to stop effects, [[Tribe-Infecting Virus]] should come back.
 
:::There are many ways to prevent destruction, [[Harpie's Feather Duster]] and [[Raigeki]] should come back.
 
:::These examples may be a bit extreme but you get the idea.
 
:::[[Special:Contributions/121.222.170.239|121.222.170.239]] ([[User talk:121.222.170.239|talk]]) 10:30, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::I see the idea, but those were all banned, while Goat is at 1. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  17:03, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::Unlike most of the ones you mentioned, [[Scapegoat]] does not tend to be a "play it and win" or "play it and get unstoppable advantage" card. [[Special:Contributions/75.58.122.97|75.58.122.97]] ([[User talk:75.58.122.97|talk]]) 18:48, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::I see you missed the part where I said "These examples may be a bit extreme but you get the idea."
 
::::::[[Special:Contributions/121.222.170.239|121.222.170.239]] ([[User talk:121.222.170.239|talk]]) 07:37, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
==Those Formerly Forbidden==
 
You haven't listed the reasons for [[Creature Swap]], [[Emergency Provisions]], [[Light and Darkness Dragon]], [[Mage Power]], [[Phantom of Chaos]] and the [[Gadget]]s at 2. I suppose this thread's name doesn't mention "Semi-Limited", but you did list [[Apprentice Magician]] and [[Morphing Jar 2|Morphing Jar #2]] so I'm not sure.
 
* Creature Swap/Mage Power: Too strong. Returned after revisionism.
 
* Green/Red/Yellow Gadget: Gadgets were topping. Now they're not.
 
* Emergency Provisions: Abused with [[Mirage of Nightmare]].
 
* Light and Darkness Dragon: [[Perfect Circle]].
 
* Phantom of Chaos: Overhype? I don't know the environment from that time.
 
[[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 20:08, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Well, I'd like to think that "Limited" implies that Semi-Limited is included in this case. Anyways, I can go ahead and add some reasons for those cards. I'm not sure about Phantom of Chaos either. I imagine it has to do with Sky Scourge decks. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  02:10, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
heres a reason for PoC: was abused in norelras and demise decks to create a yata-lock-like situation or in fusion decks with hard-to-summon materials (sacred beasts,VWXYZ) [[User:LaserGhost|LG]] [[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] [[User:LaserGhost/Pesronal Guides|My own Guides]] 04:59, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
==A nice reminder==
 
I would just like to remind all of you that YOU CAN EDIT THE LIST AS LONG AS YOU DON'T SCREW IT UP! But I will delete anything I feel shouldn't be here. kthnx. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  05:20, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Made some constructive edits. It's almost impossible to edit the list on Internet Explorer because the size of the page slows the editor to a crawl. As a sidenote, I believe [[Solemn Warning]] can negate more cards than [[Royal Oppression]]. [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 16:56, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Okay, thank you. The additions look pretty legit. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  02:40, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Added [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=1}} section edit for the list]. That way it'll only load the list, and not this discussion area. So less to load = less lag.
 
::: <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 04:03, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::Thank you Falzar! I actually didn't know that was possible. Also, at some point, is there a way to archive some of the discussion? It's starting to get a little lengthy. It's not an immediate problem but I wanted to know if it can be done for the future. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  04:09, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: Might as well. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 04:16, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::Thanks again. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  04:52, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Glow Up Bulb/Spore ==
 
 
 
I think that both of these should be changed to Low, Konami seems to be going through a phase of disliking reusable Tuner monsters and both of these fit the bill; [[Glow-Up Bulb]] is obvious, and [[Spore]] can still be used in combination with [[Lonefire Blossom]]. [[Special:Contributions/108.196.206.15|108.196.206.15]] ([[User talk:108.196.206.15|talk]]) 20:17, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Sounds like a plan. I don't really see them as being that broken personally. I can see them coming back at some point. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  23:14, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Most like never return - as they abused to shit out Quasar Dragon onto the field then punch the hell out of opponent's face if played right. Either ban Quasar or forget them. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 23:16, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::I completely disagree. Most Plant decks opted not to run Quasar. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  23:20, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
== About Rescue Cat ==
 
 
 
IMO [[Rescue Cat]] should NEVER EVER leave the list. Mainly because [[Unifolia, Holy Beast of the Forest|this card]] from REDU. I mean, Cat (or [[Summoner Monk|Monk]] into Cat) -> Unifolia + [[XX-Saber Darksoul|Darksoul]] -> Cat + Darksoul -> ... -> [[Naturia Beast|Beast]] + [[Naturia Barkion|Barkion]] + a couple of searches by Darksouls. That's too scary ._." --<font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">Brunjox</span>]]</font><sup>([[User talk:Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">''talk''</span>]],[[Special:Contributions/Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">''contrib''</span>]])</sup> 11:43, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Alternatively, a zombified version of the [[Last Will]] Rescue Cat OTK. If you remember that, feel free to tremble now. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 12:29, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
if only trishula was still here, it mneans 2 searches + 2700 beater + banishing 3 cards from 3 diffirent places. scary right?--[[User:LaserGhost|LaserGhost]] ([[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LaserGhost|contribs]]) 12:45, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Very scary indeed. I do remember the Last Will/Rescue Cat combo, but the OTK with Unifolia is even scarier, because it's a possible OTK AND a Spell/Trap lockdown if you go first. Just set some backrow (the [[Solemn Judgment|Solemn]] [[Solemn Warning|brigade]] or other stuff) and it's game - ALL THANKS TO 1 CARD (Cat) or 2 (Monk and a Spell) in hand. --<font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">Brunjox</span>]]</font><sup>([[User talk:Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">''talk''</span>]],[[Special:Contributions/Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">''contrib''</span>]])</sup> 13:00, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Card of Safe Return ==
 
 
 
This card should go to NEVER because it should NEVER i say NEVER Come back. Something like infernities,X-sabers,Zombies, Wind-ups,frogs,synchrons and Lavals will overly spam this. NEVER Come back.--[[User:LaserGhost|LaserGhost]] ([[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LaserGhost|contribs]]) 16:35, July 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
* You're right except for the "[[Infernity]]" archetype, who wouldn't gain any advantage from that card. Also, "[[Dark World]]" anyone? ([[Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World|Grapha]]/[[Sillva, Warlord of Dark World|Sillva]]/[[Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World|Goldd]]/[[Beiige, Vanguard of Dark World|Beeige]]/etc.) --<font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">Brunjox</span>]]</font><sup>([[User talk:Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">''talk''</span>]],[[Special:Contributions/Brunjox|<span style="color:#32CD32">''contrib''</span>]])</sup> 17:50, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
I used CoSR with 3 stardust and/or stardust assault modes to lock down their everything basically.
 
 
 
[[User:Kordeleski|Kordeleski]] ([[User talk:Kordeleski|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kordeleski|contribs]]) 21:59, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Ever with [[Hieratic]], if some Dragons are in the Graveyard, they can abusing with this card by reborn either Sealed version or Level 6 Normal Dragon ([[Luster Dragon 2]]) with enough of hand to recycle for next combines. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 22:06, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Definitely right, with the exception of Infernities. Infernities would never use it, it would just be a liability. Fableds on the other hand.... i'll cal this one a NEVER. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  02:39, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
==Elemental HERO Stratos==
 
I think this card should be Chance of Up to Forbidden List. Not only it is +1, searching for Elemental HERO Neos Alius for HERO Beat Deck, but also, A HERO Lives Deck has taken over entire OCG Tournament. With XYZ available, it is now even easy to send Stratos back to Grave, only to be reused by Call of the Haunted or Monster Reborn again.--[[Special:Contributions/98.198.189.74|98.198.189.74]] ([[User talk:98.198.189.74|talk]]) 04:43, August 13, 2012 (UTC)A Nerd Next Door--[[Special:Contributions/98.198.189.74|98.198.189.74]] ([[User talk:98.198.189.74|talk]]) 04:43, August 13, 2012 (UTC){{Infobox}}
 
 
 
== UPDATE ==
 
 
 
http://shriek.twoday.net/stories/129655023
 
The September 2012 banlist has been confirmed. On September 1st or 2nd, I will mass-update this list, including the new cards, new reasons for certain cards being where they are, and whether or not those cards have a chance of going up or down. I would appreciate it if everyone leaves this alone until then since there's no use discussing it with the format change so close, and there's no point in adding the new stuff before the list takes effect. Thank you kindly for your patience. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  08:59, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
What?!?!
 
 
 
So does this mean you can't have these cards period?  Because I was planning in getting Trishula and I already have Cyber Jar, Magician of Faith, and Giant Trunade.  What should I do now?  Throw them away?! [[User:SwordoftheSpirit|SwordoftheSpirit]] ([[User talk:SwordoftheSpirit|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/SwordoftheSpirit|contribs]]) 01:28, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Yes, you are allowed to have them. You just can't put them in your deck. [[User:PHASE|PHASE]] ([[User talk:PHASE|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PHASE|contribs]]) 01:57, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
At all or can I use them if I say Duel my brother?  Or a friend who will agree to let me use them? [[User:SwordoftheSpirit|SwordoftheSpirit]] ([[User talk:SwordoftheSpirit|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/SwordoftheSpirit|contribs]]) 02:48, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
If your opponent is okay with it then sure, we have [[Traditional Format]] don't we? [[User:PHASE|PHASE]] ([[User talk:PHASE|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PHASE|contribs]]) 03:07, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
Question for Skull, what're you going to put as the reason for Spore being at 1? A large number of people agree there's no point it being at one, you think it was just Konami being Konami?<br>
 
[[Special:Contributions/58.169.183.228|58.169.183.228]] ([[User talk:58.169.183.228|talk]]) 12:57, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Pretty much - Konami is being silly, but also clever - if we get Spore back to unlimited (ever with it effect limited itself to once per duel), it can evade "D.D. Crow", any banish cards that ripping this card out of anywhere. It's like you tried to "Mystical Space Typhoon" the "Infernity Launcher", then see Infernity player miracle drew second Launcher. That's worth the trouble. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 13:05, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Except that everyone knows you chain Crow to Spore's effect, so that it's still been activated. [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 14:56, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 06:14, 24 November 2019


List[edit]

Edit the list
In case someone somehow missed it. Click "Show" on the right side of the bar.
This list is for the people who are curious about why certain cards are banned/limited.
This list can also assist people before posting a prediction on the next banlist.
Please help out by pointing out changes that should be made in the list (if any) (please include reasons).
And for those who are wondering. No, I didn't make this list recently. It been on 2 other forums before. This is the most updated version of it as the other 2 aren't being updated.
See also: Historic Forbidden/Limited Chart. --  Falzar FZ  talk page  useful stuff    07:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

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